Como eram e quem eram os Portugueses nativos?

Tópico em 'Biosfera e Atmosfera' iniciado por belem 26 Jan 2013 às 20:40.

  1. belem

    belem
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    Aqui está um tema, que já há algum tempo tenho andado a querer introduzir aqui no forum, mas não tenho tido tempo nem disponibilidade para o fazer.

    Às dúvidas patentes no título, surgem mais outras:


    Como era a sua cultura (tipo de vida, vestes, idioma, etc...)?

    Onde viveram?

    Qual era o seu grau de conhecimentos?

    Domesticaram animais e adoptaram variedades de plantas locais na sua alimentação?


    Para se ter uma ideia, podemos estar a falar desde o período do Paleolítico.
     
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  2. Knyght

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    Isso é história, não sei se é o forte do fórum, pode ser ainda que seja o forte de alguém!

    Mas creio que nativos portugueses não existiram, existiu sim, espanhóis renegados e sobreviventes árabes que beberam a cultura.
     
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  3. belem

    belem
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    Como estamos inseridos no offtopic, pode ser que apareça alguém.

    E os Portugueses nativos existiram, claro que existiram.
     
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  4. Aristocrata

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    A Ibéria é anterior à existência de Espanha (posterior à própria existência de Portugal e que surgiu da junção de vários reinos dentro da península) no qual viviam os povos Iberos. Daqui surgem os Portugueses e os Espanhóis.
    São povos irmãos na verdadeira identidade e não somos originários dos Espanhóis como por vezes se lê por aí.

    A Ibéria teve povos desde o paleolítico, provavelmente anterior - como o provam as ossadas pré-históricas (Neanderthal p.ex.), e foi aculturada por vários outros povos. Tem sido assim em toda a parte, não só por cá.
    E há uma identidade muito própria dos povos iberos (a nível genético já estudaram a questão).

    Não sou perito, longe disso...
    Venham mais opiniões e se possível estudos;)

    P.S.: bom tópico
     
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  5. belem

    belem
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    Obrigado, também acho que é um bom tópico, e tenho a certeza que vai surpreender imenso as pessoas. Muita gente vai ver que temos muito a aprender com os nossos antepassados.

    Concordo aqui com o Aristocrata, mas eu arrisquei lançar este tema, após consultar uns estudos genéticos, históricos e fazer uma resenha de fenótipos humanos primitivos (que depois irei colocar aqui), que me deixaram muito surpreendido.

    Digamos que as últimas descobertas desafiam largamente a ideia pré-concebida, de que quase todos os Portugueses são uma grande miscelânea e que têm origem fora de Portugal.
     
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  6. belem

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    «Indeed, Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b (of Paleolithic origin) is the most common haplogroup in practically all of the Iberian peninsula and western Europe.»


    Pericić M, Lauc LB, Klarić IM, et al. (October 2005). "High-resolution phylogenetic analysis of southeastern Europe traces major episodes of paternal gene flow among Slavic populations". Molecular Biology and Evolution 22 (10): 1964–75

    R1b, é um haplogrupo extraordinariamente antigo. E ao que parece a P. Ibérica tem um subtipo específico, que também foi encontrado no País de Gales e Irlanda, por exemplo. Isto pode ter a haver, com a migração das populações humanas primitivas, desde a P. Ibérica para Norte.


    «Portuguese people have also maintained a certain degree of cultural and ethnic-specific characteristics ratio with the Basques, since ancient times. The results of the present HLA study in Portuguese populations show that they have features in common with Basques and Spaniards from Madrid: a high frequency of the HLA-haplotypes A29-B44-DR7 (ancient western Europeans) and A1-B8-DR3 are found as common characteristics. Portuguese and Basques do not show the Mediterranean A33-B14-DR1 haplotype, suggesting a lower admixture with Mediterraneans. The Portuguese have a characteristic unique among world populations: a high frequency of HLA-A25-B18-DR15 and A26-B38-DR13, which may reflect a still detectable founder effect coming from ancient Portuguese, i.e., Oestrimnios and Conios».

    «Relatedness among Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians studied by HLA allelic frequencies and haplotypes.»

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9382919

    Mais pistas.


    Depois venho cá colocar mais informação.
     
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  7. Aristocrata

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    Essa dos Bascos...:eek:

    Sempre tive a "sensação", comentada com colegas depois de visitar o País Basco, que os Portugueses e os Bascos eram muito parecidos em traços fisiológicos: baixos por natureza (antes do boom de crescimento nas últimas 3\4 décadas), com uma tez muito parecida, bigodes também à la tuga.
    Nada de científico, mas aquele "feeling" que havia algo de diferente neles relativamente aos restantes Espanhóis (tirando os da Galiza que partilham também muitos traços, nomeadamente culturais, com as gentes do norte).

    Muito há a dizer, desde a genética, a cultura, a lingua, história, etc.. Se estudarmos a fundo de certeza que vamos chegar a conclusões interessantes. É muito mais o que nos une do que aquilo que nos divide.
    E sabermos mais de nós permite que nos VALORIZEMOS enquanto povo.:thumbsup:
     
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    rubenpires gostou disto.
  8. DMigueis

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    O conhecimento científico começa aí mesmo, com o questionamento do mundo que nos rodeia. Questionar, colocar hipóteses de resposta a essa questão e, a partir daí, desenvolve-se um conjunto de metodologias que nos permitem confirmar ou contrariar as hipóteses que colocamos.

    :)
     
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  9. boneli

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    Se queremos falar dos primeiros povos a ocupar o que é o território Português primeiro de tudo vamos esquecer Portugal e Espanha. Ha 30 000 anos atrás tinhamos um território que se chamava Peninsula Ibérica a que os povos Pré históricos que cá chegaram ocuparam. Para eles era um território não um Portugal Espanha ou Galiza ou Minho.

    Eram Povos caçadores que se movcimentavam de território e não havia fronteiras..mas mais tarde com calma posso falar um pouco disso....mas esqueçam espanhóis renegados e árabes. E só por curiosidade quando Espanha se formou Portugal já existia à muito...alias Portugal é talvez dos Países mais antigos do mundo com as suas fronteiras bem definidas. Mas isso é outra história.
     
  10. frederico

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    Aqui no IPATIMUP umas investigadoras fizeram uns estudos genéticos sobre a origem dos portugueses, há até um livro publicado. Nós somos descendentes de tribos nativas que viviam no Norte da Espanha e no Noroeste da Península, essas tribos depois deram origem aos ingleses, irlandeses, franceses, belgas, enfim aos povos da Europa Ocidental, depois da última glaciação. No Sul de Portugal há contribuições extra vinda dos árabes, berberes ou judeus.

    Portanto é olhar para as pessoas da Galiza, Minho, País Basco ou Astúrias, ver como elas são, pois está aí a resposta.
     
  11. frederico

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    Aqui no IPATIMUP fizeram uns estudos genéticos e chegaram a essa conclusão, não só os portugueses mas também os povos das ilhas britânicas e da França Ocidental descendem dos povos do Norte e Noroeste da Península. Mas no Sul de Portugal há uma contribuição importante dos árabes e judeus. E no Norte e Noroeste há muitas pessoas de olhos claros, as minhotas são conhecidas por terem os olhos claros, e muitas crianças são loiras nos primeiros anos, depois é que o cabelo escurece.
     
  12. frederico

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    Pelo que sei viveriam em castros ou citânias. Havia muita caça nos bosques, veados, ursos, gamos, cabra selvagem, portanto carne não faltava. Provavelmente mais tarde domesticaram o auroque e o leite foi introduzido na alimentação. Os rios eram ricos em peixe, havia por exemplo muito salmão. Como fonte de hidratos de carbono apostaria na bolota e na avelã. Creio que o castanheiro foi introduzido pelos romanos mas não tenho a certeza. As vitaminas viriam de ervas comestíveis, bagas silvestres e alguns frutos silvestres, como a pêra. Estou a pensar obviamente no Noroeste da Península, na região a norte de Aveiro. No Sul, principalmente no Algarve, houve contactos com povos do Mediterrâneo desde muito cedo, e conquentemente deu-se a introdução de muitas espécies vegetais vindas do Oriente, práticas agrícolas e de criação de gado, etc.

    Há descrições das tribos celtas do Norte da Península feitas pelos romanos, dizem por exemplo que usam manteiga para cozinhar, e que no Sul da Península usam azeite.

    Em termos religiosos teriam uma mistura de paganismo com animismo. O druida era o sacerdote da tribo, faria votos de castidade e presume-se que eram vegetarianos, ou pelo menos não comiam carne antes dos rituais e em algumas épocas do ano. Adorariam deuses que represetavam arquétipos do Universo, com equivalentes nas religiões da Grécia Antiga, Babilónia ou Roma. No Ocidente da Europa as tribos eram matriarcais. As mulheres tinham os mesmos direitos que os homens, podiam escolher e rejeitar o marido e ter sexo com outros homens após o casamento. Sabe-se também que as relações entre pessoas do mesmo sexo eram comuns e aceites socialmente, o que na época escandalizou os romanos e os gregos. As mulheres das tribos celtas também participavam na guerra, tinham orgulho do seu estatuto na sociedade e desdenhavam das mulheres romanas, que tinham um papel inferior ao do homem na sociedade de Roma (mas isso depois mudou um pouco, antes da introdução do Cristianismo, pois depois com a introdução do Cristianismo a sociedade passou a patriarcal).

    A árvore sagrada era o carvalho-roble, considerado um portal para o mundo dos mortos. Estes povos acreditavam na existência de espíritos da natureza, elementais, que habitavam os bosques e protegiam as árvores, rios, fontes e minas. Eram os duendes, fadas, faunos, musas... Praticavam vários métodos de adivinhação. Vestiam-se com peles de animais e trabalhavam os metais.

    Bem esta informação toda memorizei quando li crónicas de autores romanos e gregos sobre as tribos celtas do Norte da Península e da Gália.
     
  13. frederico

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    A sociedade patriarcal veio com a romanização e muito especialmente com a introdução do judaísmo-cristianismo. Não vou aqui discutir se é melhor sermos uma sociedade matriarcal ou patriarcal, como alguns fazem, em boa verdade acho que a virtude está no equilíbrio e ambos os tipos de sociedades têm excessos e qualidades.
     
  14. frederico

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    (151) Now if we again begin at the Sacred Cape, following the coast in the other direction, namely, towards the Tagus River, there is first a gulf, then a promontory, Barbarium, and near it the mouths of the Tagus; and the distance to these mouths in a direct voyage is ten63 stadia. Here, too, there are estuaries; one of them extends inland from the p63afore-mentioned tower64 for more than four hundred stadia, and along this estuary the country is watered as far as Salacia.65 Now the Tagus not only has a width of about twenty stadia at its mouth, but its depth is so great that very large merchant-ships can ascend it. And when the flood-tides come on, it forms two estuaries in the plains that lie above it, 152 so that it forms a sea for a distance of one hundred and fifty stadia, and renders the plain navigable, and also, in the upper estuary, encloses an island about thirty stadia in length, and in breadth a trifle short of the length — an island with fine groves and vines. The island is situated opposite Moron,66 a city happily situated on a mountain near the river, at a distance of about five hundred stadia from the sea. And further, not only is the country round about the city rich, but the voyages thither are easy — even for large ships a considerable part of the way, though only for river-boats the rest of the way. And beyond Moron, also, the river is navigable for a still greater distance. This city Brutus, surnamed Callaicus,67 used as a base of operations when he warred against the Lusitanians and brought these people under subjection. And, to command the bar68 of the river, he fortified Olysipo, in order that the p65voyages inland and the importation of provisions might be unimpeded; so that among the cities about the Tagus these are strongest. The Tagus abounds in fish, and is full of oysters. It rises in Celtiberia, and flows through Vettonia, Carpetania, and Lusitania, towards the equinoctial west,69 up to a certain point being parallel to both the Anas and the Baetis, but after that diverging from those rivers, since they bend off towards the southern seaboard.

    2 Now of the peoples situated beyond the mountains mentioned above,70 the Oretanians are most southerly, and their territory reaches as far as the seacoast in part of the country this side of the Pillars; the Carpetanians are next after these on the north; then the Vettonians and the Vaccaeans, through whose territory the Durius River flows, which affords a crossing at Acutia, a city of the Vaccaeans; and last, the Callaicans, who occupy a very considerable part of the mountainous country. For this reason, since they were very hard to fight with, the Callaicans themselves have not only furnished the surname for the man who defeated the Lusitanians but they have also brought it about that now, already, the most of the Lusitanians are called Callaicans. Now as for Oretania, its city of Castalo is very powerful, and so is Oria.71

    3 And yet the country north of the Tagus, Lusitania, is the greatest of the Iberian nations, and is the nation against which the Romans waged war for the longest times. The boundaries of this country are: on the southern side, the Tagus; on the p67western and northern, the ocean; and on the eastern, the countries of the Carpetanians, Vettonians, Vaccaeans, and Callaicans, the well-known tribes; it is not worth while to name the rest, because of their smallness and lack of repute. Contrary to the men of to‑day, however, some call also these peoples Lusitanians. These four peoples, in the eastern part of their countries, have common boundaries, thus: the Callaicans, with the tribe of the Asturians and with the Celtiberians, but the others with only the Celtiberians. 153 Now the length of Lusitania to cape Nerium is three thousand stadia, but its breadth, which is formed between its eastern side and the coast-line that lies opposite thereto, is much less. The eastern side is high and rough, but the country that lies below is all plain even to the sea, except a few mountains of no great magnitude. And this, of course, is why Poseidonius says that Aristotle is incorrect in making the coast-line72 and Maurusia the cause of the flood-tides and the ebb-tides; whom he quotes as saying that the sea ebbs and flows on account of the fact that the coast-lands are both high and rugged, which not only receive the waves roughly but give them back with equal violence. For on the contrary, Poseidonius correctly says, the coast-lands are for the most part sandy and low.

    4 At all events, the country of which I am speaking is fertile, and it is also traversed by rivers both large and small, all of them flowing from the eastern parts and parallel to the Tagus; most of them offer voyages inland and contain very great quantities of gold-dust as well. Best known of the rivers immediately after the Tagus are the Mundas, which p69offers short voyages inland, and likewise the Vacua. After these two is the Durius, which, coming from afar, flows by Numantia and many other settlements of the Celtiberians and Vaccaenas, and is navigable for large boats for a distance of about eight hundred stadia inland. Then come other rivers. And after these the River of Lethe,73 which by some persons is called Limaeas, but by others Belion;74 and this river, too, rises in the country of the Celtiberians and the Vaccaenas, as also does the river that comes after it, namely the Baenis (others say "Minius"), which is by far the greatest of the rivers in Lusitania — itself, also, being navigable inland for eight hundred stadia. Poseidonius, however, says that the Baenis rises in Cantabria. Off its mouth lies an island, and two breakwaters which afford anchorage for vessels. The nature of these rivers deserves praise, because the banks which they have are high, and adequate to receive within their channels the sea at high tide without overflowing or spreading over the plains. Now this river was the limit of Brutus' campaign, though farther on there are several other rivers, parallel to those mentioned.

    5 Last of all come the Artabrians, who live in the neighbourhood of the cape called Nerium, which is the end of both the western and the northern side of Iberia. But the country round about the cape itself is inhabited by Celtic people, kinsmen of those on the Anas; for these people and the Turdulians made an expedition thither and then had a quarrel, it is said, after they had crossed the Limaeas River; and when, in addition to the quarrel, the Celtic peoples also suffered the loss of their chieftain, they scattered and stayed there; and it was from this p71circumstance that the Limaeas was also called the River of Lethe. 154 The Artabrians have many thickly-peopled cities on that gulf which the sailors who frequent those parts call the Harbour of the Artabrians. The men of to‑day, however, call the Artabrians Arotrebians. Now about thirty75 different tribes occupy the country between the Tagus and the Artabrians, and although the country was blest in fruits, in cattle, and in the abundance of its gold and silver and similar metals, still, most of the people had ceased to gain their livelihood from the earth, and were spending their time in brigandage and in continuous warfare with each other and with their neighbours across the Tagus, until they were stopped by the Romans, who humbled them and reduced most of their cities to mere villages, though they improved some of their cities by adding colonies thereto. It was the mountaineers who began this lawlessness, as was likely to be the case; for, since they occupied sorry land and possessed but little property, they coveted what belonged to the others. And the latter, in defending themselves against the mountaineers, were necessarily rendered powerless over their private estates, so that they, too, began to engage in war instead of farming; and the result was that the country, neglected because it was barren of planted products, became the home only of brigands.

    6 At any rate, the Lusitanians, it is said, are given to laying ambush, given to spying out, are quick, nimble, and good at deploying troops. They have a small shield two feet in diameter, concave p73in front, and suspended from the shoulder by means of thongs (for it has neither arm-rings nor handles). Besides these shields they have a dirk or a butcher's-knife. Most of them wear linen cuirasses; a few wear chain-wrought cuirasses and helmets with three crests, but the rest wear helmets made of sinews. The foot-soldiers wear greaves also, and each soldier has several javelins; and some also make use of spears, and the spears have bronze heads. Now some of the peoples that dwell next to the Durius River live, it is said, after the manner of the Laconians — using anointing-rooms twice a day and taking baths in vapours that rise from heated stones, bathing in cold water, and eating only one meal a day;76 and that in a cleanly77 and simple way. The Lusitanians are given to offering sacrifices, and they inspect the vitals, without cutting them out. Besides, they also inspect the veins on the side of the victim; and they divine by the tokens of touch, too. They prophesy through means of the vitals of human beings also, prisoners of war, whom they first cover with coarse cloaks, and then, when the victim has been struck beneath the vitals by the diviner, they draw their first auguries from the fall of the victim. And they cut off the right hands of their captives and set them up as an offering to the gods.

    7 All the mountaineers lead a simple life, are water-drinkers, sleep on the ground, and let their hair stream down in thick masses after the manner of women, though before going into battle they bind their hair about the forehead. 155 They eat goat's-meat mostly, and to Ares they sacrifice a he-goat and also p75the prisoners and horses; and they also offer hecatombs of each kind, after the Greek fashion — as Pindar himself says, "to sacrifice a hundred of every kind." They also hold contests, for light-armed and heavy-armed soldiers and cavalry, in boxing, in running, in skirmishing, and in fighting by squads. And the mountaineers, for two-thirds of the year, eat acorns, which they have first dried and crushed, and then ground up and made into a bread that may be stored away for a long time. They also drink beer; but they are scarce of wine, and what wine they have made they speedily drink up in merry feastings with their kinsfolk; and instead of olive-oil they use butter. Again, they dine sitting down, for they have stationary seats builded around the walls of the room, though they seat themselves forward according to age and rank. The dinner is passed round, and amid their cups they dance to flute and trumpet, dancing in chorus, but also leaping up and crouching low. But in Bastetania women too dance promiscuously with men, taking hold of their hands. All the men dress in black, for the most part in coarse cloaks, in which they sleep, on their beds of litter. And they use waxen vessels, just as the Celts do.78 But the women always go clad in long mantles and gay-coloured gowns. Instead of coined money the people, at least those who live deep in the interior, employ barter, or else they cut off pieces from beaten silver metal and pass them as money. Those who are condemned to death they hurl from precipices; and p77the parricides they stone to death out beyond their mountains or their rivers. They marry in the same way as the Greeks. Their sick they expose upon the streets, in the same way as the Egyptians79 did in ancient times, for the sake of their getting suggestions from those who have experienced the disease. Again, up to the time of Brutus80 they used boats of tanned leather on account of the flood-tides and the shoal-waters, but now, already, even the dug-out canoes are rare. Their rock-salt is red, but when crushed it is white. Now this, as I was saying, is the mode of life of the mountaineers, I mean those whose boundaries mark off the northern side of Iberia, namely, the Callaicans, the Asturians, and the Cantabrians, as far as the Vasconians and the Pyrenees; for the modes of life of all of them are of like character. I shrink from giving too many of the names, shunning the unpleasant task of writing them down — unless it comports with the pleasure of some one to hear "Pleutaurans," "Bardyetans," "Allotrigans," and other names still less pleasing and of less significance than these.

    8 The quality of intractability and wildness in these peoples has not resulted solely from their engaging in warfare, but also from their remoteness; for the trip to their country, whether by sea or by land, is long, and since they are difficult to communicate with, they have lost the instinct of sociability and humanity. 156 They have this feeling of intractability and wildness to a less extent now, however, because of the peace and of the sojourns of the Roman among them. But wherever such p79sojourns are rarer the people are harder to deal with and more brutish; and if some are so disagreeable merely as the result of the remoteness of their regions, it is likely that those who live in the mountains are still more outlandish. But now, as I have said, they have wholly ceased carrying on war; for both the Cantabrians (who still to‑day more than the rest keep together their bands of robbers) and their neighbours have been subdued by Augustus Caesar; and instead of plundering the allies of the Romans, both the Coniacans81 and the Plentuisans,82 who live near the source of the Iberus, now take the field for the Romans. Further, Tiberius, his successor, has set over these regions an army of three legions (the army already appointed by Augustus Caesar), and it so happens that he already has rendered some of the peoples not only peaceable but civilised as well.


    Estrabão, Geografia
     
  15. frederico

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    (136) Now that I have given the first general outline of geography, it is proper for me to discuss next the several parts of the inhabited world; indeed, I have promised to do so,1 and I think that thus far my treatise has been correctly apportioned. But I must begin again with Europe and with those parts of Europe with which I began at first,2 and for the same reasons.

    2 As I was saying, the first part of Europe is the western, namely, Iberia. 137Now of Iberia the larger part affords but poor means of livelihood; for most of the inhabited country consists of mountains, forests, and plains whose soil is thin — and even that not uniformly well-watered. And Northern Iberia, in addition to its ruggedness, not only is extremely cold, but lies next to the ocean, and thus has acquired its characteristic of inhospitality and aversion to intercourse with other countries; consequently, it is an exceedingly wretched place to live in. Such, then, is the character of the northern parts; but almost the whole of Southern Iberia is fertile, particularly the region outside the Pillars. This p5will become clear in the course of my detailed description of Iberia. But first I must briefly describe its shape and give its dimensions.

    3 Iberia is like an ox-hide extending in length from west to east, its fore-parts toward the east, and in breadth from north to south. It is six thousand stadia in length all told, and five thousand stadia in its greatest breadth; though in some places it is much less than three thousand stadia in breadth, particularly near the Pyrenees, which form its eastern side. That is, an unbroken chain of mountains, stretching from north to south, forms the boundary line between Celtica and Iberia; and since Celtica, as well as Iberia, varies in breadth, the part of each country that is narrowest in breadth between Our Sea and the ocean is that which lies nearest to the Pyrenees, on either side of those mountains, and forms gulfs both at the ocean and at Our Sea. The Celtic gulfs, however, which are also called Galatic, are larger, and the isthmus which they form is narrower as compared with that of Iberia.3 So the eastern side of Iberia is formed by the Pyrenees; the southern side is formed in part by Our Sea, from the Pyrenees to the Pillars, and from that point on by the ocean, up to what is called the Sacred Cape;4 the third is the western side, which p7is approximately parallel to the Pyrenees and extends from the Sacred Cape to that Cape of the Artabrians which is called Nerium;5 and the fourth side extends from Cape Nerium up to the northern headlands of the Pyrenees.

    4 But, to resume, let me describe Iberia in detail, beginning with the Sacred Cape. This cape is the most westerly point, not only of Europe, but of the whole inhabited world; for, whereas the inhabited world comes to an end in the west with the two continents (in the one hand, at the headlands of Europe, and in the other, at the extremities of Libya, of which regions the Iberians occupy the one, and the Maurusians the other), the headlands of Iberia project at the aforementioned cape about fifteen hundred stadia beyond those of Libya. Moreover, the country adjacent to this cape they call in the Latin language "Cuneus," meaning thereby to indicate its wedge-shape. But as for the cape itself, which projects into the sea, Artemidorus (who visited the place, as he says) likens it to a ship; 138and he says that three little islands help to give it this shape, one of these islands occupying the position of a ship's beak, and the other two, which have fairly good places of anchorage, occupying the position of cat-heads. But as for Heracles, he says, there is neither a temple of his to be seen on the cape (as Ephorus wrongly states), nor an altar to him, or to any other god either, but only stones6 in many spots, lying in groups of three or four, which in accordance with a native custom are p9turned round by those who visit the place, and then, after the pouring of a libation, are moved back again.7 And it is not lawful, he adds, to offer sacrifice there, nor, at night, even to set foot on the place, because the gods, the people say, occupy it at that time; but those who come to see the place spend the night in a neighbouring village, and then enter the place by day, taking water with them, for there is no water there.

    5 Now these assertions of Artemidorus are allowable, and we should believe them; but the stories which he has told in agreement with the common crowd of people are by no means to be believed. For example, it is a general saying among the people, according to Poseidonius, that in the regions along the coast of the ocean the sun is larger when it sets, and that it sets with a noise much as if the sea were sizzling to extinguish it because of its falling into the depths. But, says Poseidonius, this is false, as also the statement that night follows instantly upon sunset; for night does not come on instantly, but after a slight interval, just as it does on the coasts of the other large seas. For in regions where the sun sets behind mountains, he says, the daylight lasts a longer time after sunset, as a result of the indirect light; but on the sea-coasts no considerable interval ensues, albeit the darkness does not come on instantly, either, any more than it does on the great plains. And, he says, the visual impression of the size of the sun increases alike both at sunset and sunrise on the seas, because at those times a greater amount of vapour rises p11from the water; that is, the visual rays, in passing through this vapour as through a lens,8 are broken,9 and therefore the visual impression is magnified, just as it is when the setting or the rising sun, or moon, is seen through a dry, thin cloud, at which time the heavenly body also appears somewhat ruddy. He convinced himself, he says, of the falsity of the above assertions during his stay of thirty days in Gades, when he observed the settings of the sun. Nevertheless, Artemidorus says that the sun sets a hundred times larger than usual, and that night comes on immediately! However, if we look closely at his declaration, we are obliged to assume that he did not himself see this phenomenon at the Sacred Cape, for he states that no one sets foot on the place by night; and hence no one could set foot on it while the sun was setting, either, if it be true that night comes on immediately. Neither, in fact, did he see it at any other point on the ocean-coast, for Gades is also on the ocean, and Poseidonius and several others bear witness against him.

    6 The coastline adjacent to the Sacred Cape, on the west, 139is the beginning of the western side of Iberia as far as the mouth of the Tagus River, and, on the south, the beginning of the southern side as far as another river, the Anas, and its mouth. Both rivers flow from the eastern regions; the Tagus, which is a much larger stream than the other, flows straight westward to its mouth, whereas the Anas turns south, and marks off a boundary of the interfluvial region, which is inhabited for the most part p13by Celtic peoples, and by certain of the Lusitanians who were transplanted thither by the Romans from the other side of the Tagus. But in the regions farther inland dwell Carpetanians, Oretanians, and large numbers of Vettonians. This country, to be sure, has only a moderately happy lot, but that which lies next to it on the east and south takes pre-eminence in comparison with the entire inhabited world in respect of fertility and of the goodly products of land and sea. This is the country through which the Baetis flows, which rises in the same districts as both the Anas and the Tagus, and in size is about midway between the other two rivers. Like the Anas, however, it at first flows towards the west, and then turns south, and empties on the same coast as the Anas. They call the country Baetica for the river, and also Turdetania after the inhabitants; yet they call the inhabitants both Turdetanians and Turdulians, some believing that they are the same people, others that they are different. Among the latter is Polybius, for he states that the Turdulians are neighbours of the Turdetanians on the north; but at the present time there is no distinction to be seen among them. The Turdetanians are ranked as the wisest of the Iberians; and they make use of an alphabet, and possess records of their ancient history, poems, and laws written in verse that are six thousand years old,10 as they assert. And also the other Iberians use an alphabet, though not letters of one and the same character, for their speech is not one and the same, either. Now Turdetania, the country this side the p15Anas, stretches eastward as far as Oretania, and southward as far as the coastline that extends from the mouths of the Anas to the Pillars. But I must describe it and the regions that are close to it at greater length, telling all that contributes to our knowledge of their natural advantages and happy lot.

    7 Between this stretch of coastline, on which both the Baetis and the Anas empty, and the limits of Maurusia, the Atlantic Ocean breaks in and thus forms the strait at the Pillars, and by this strait the interior sea connects with the exterior sea. Now at this strait there is a mountain belonging to those Iberians that are called Bastetanians, who are also called Bastulians; I mean Calpe, which, although its circumference is not great, rises to so great a height and is so steep that from a distance it looks like an island. 140So when you sail from Our Sea into the exterior sea, you have this mountain on your right hand; and near it, within a distance of forty stadia, is the city Calpe,11 an important and ancient city, which was once a naval station of the Iberians. And some further say that it was founded by Heracles, among whom is Timosthenes, who says that in ancient times it was also called Heracleia, and that its great city-walls and its docks are still to be seen.

    8 Then comes Menlaria, with its establishments for salting fish; and next, the city and river of Belon. It is from Belon that people generally take ship for the passage across to Tingis in Maurusia; and at Belon there are trading-places and establishments p17for salting fish. There used to be a city of Zelis, also, a neighbour of Tingis, but the Romans transplanted it to the opposite coast of Iberia, taking along some of the inhabitants of Tingis; and they also sent some of their own people thither as colonists and named the city "Julia Ioza." Then comes Gades, an island separated from Turdetania by a narrow strait, and distant from Calpe about seven hundred and fifty stadia (though some say eight hundred). This island does not differ at all from the others except that, because of the daring of its inhabitants as sailors, and because of their friendship for the Romans, it has made such advances in every kind of prosperity that, although situated at the extremity of the earth, it is the most famous of them all. But I shall tell about Gades when I discuss the other islands.

    9 Next in order comes what is called the Port of Menestheus, and then the estuary at Asta and Nabrissa. (The name of estuaries is given to hollows that are covered by the sea at the high tides, and, like rivers, afford waterways into the interior and to the cities on their shores.) Then immediately comes the outlet of the Baetis, which has a twofold division; and the island that is enclosed by the two mouths has a coastal boundary of one hundred stadia, or, as some say, still more than that. Hereabouts is the oracle of Menestheus; and also the tower of Caepio, which is situated upon a rock that is washed on all sides by the waves, and, like the Pharos tower,12 is a marvellous structure built for the sake of the safety of mariners; for not only do the alluvial p19deposits that are discharged by the river form shallows, but the region in front of it is full of reefs, so that there is need of a conspicuous beacon. Thence is the waterway up the Baetis, and the city of Ebura, and the shrine of Phosphorus,13 which they call "Lux Dubia." Then come the waterways up to the estuaries; and after that the Anas River, which also has two mouths, and the waterway from both mouths into the interior. Then, finally, comes the Sacred Cape, which is less than two thousand stadia distant from Gades. Some, however, say that the distance from the Sacred Cape to the mouth of the Anas is sixty miles, and thence to the mouth of the Baetis, a hundred, 141and then, to Gades, seventy.14


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