Athens to experience 50°C during the summer/ Greek Ministry of Climate Change

[Ferreiro]

Also to come back to the topic I would like to ask our friends here a question,on what area you believe will be the first in Europe to hit an official 50C and if possible when??

My research suggest that the strongest candidates in Europe are the following

1.Athens basin
2. Murcia plains
3.Catania plains
4.Amareleja area
5.Guadalquivir valley


I am putting Athens first bsc of its official European record but I am open to some nice dialogue


On a sidenote,please find below the HNMS forecast for the 20th of July when we expect the heat in Greece to be at its height.HNMS is giving a maximum of 43C for Elefsina in Athens and 43C in Lamia as well.Just see a noteworthy 33C! as minimum for Elefsina. If the scenario of NW catabatic foehn winds comes true then its sure that Elefsina will see extremes.Let's see how it pans out

Tal como eu achei ao final nada de nada em Atenas-Elefsina. A previsao era de 33ºC de minima e 43ºC de maxima para hoje día 20 de julho, finalmente foi 25ºC de mínima e 36ºC de maxima. Agora ja está baixando a temperatura em Atenas.

Ja 3 anos há que Atenas-Elefsina nao chega a 40ºC. O grego sonha com chegar a 50ºC, a realidade é que poucas vezes chega a 40ºC.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Highest temps for yesterday in Attica with 39.5 in N.Filadelfeia

 

[Amending]

Highest temps for yesterday in Attica with 39.5 in N.Filadelfeia

Have you got any information about the Hellinikon automated station?
There are often appreciable differences from the two Hellinikon in HNMS outputs. I believe they are not in the same place.
The radiation shield can cause even huge differences in tmax with slow wind and strong solar radiation (up to 2-2,5°C between Stevenson shelters and good fan aspirated screens), but there we often see appreciable differences also in tmin, and there the shield changes little. In my opinion these stations are not side by side, the differences between them are too large for being simple differences due to measurement technique; there must be at least some hundreds of meters between them.

 

[Amending]

I have asked many times before if someone could help me to setup some stations with dataloggers in order to get a good indication of the heat in Portugal, given the lack of weatherstations in interesting places. Again: I am willing to do this but I need your help!

Saint Now!

Oh, great. One who has interest for a specific location and plans to place a datalogger there. Great.
Yesterday I was considering this http://cgi.ebay.it/YOUNG-MULTI-PLAT...468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2565bc1b14 for some monitoring I am planning (see below), but I fear that most of dataloggers I have at hand now (Omega OM-63) would not fit inside it. The iButtons would, but I cant travel all the time every 42 days to download the data.

Btw, about Italian meteorological service quality, watch here the WMO station 16020 - Bolzano/Bozen airport (LIPB).

http://www.facebook.com/notes/wette...ozen-krankenhaus-vs-flughafen/252875524727894

The reportage was published by the Hydrographic Office of the province of Bolzano, that noticed surprising and increasing differences between their station located at the hospital and the AM station located at the airport.
I am asking them to publish pictures taken from few meters distance to prove that the WMO station is really among the solar panels, satellite images are not detailed enough.
If it is demonstrated that the station is really there next to local sources of heat that interact with solar radiation, we can rename it from LIPB to LGPB
However I'd like to place a couple of dataloggers near Bolzano in order to assess how mean temperatures really are there, as all the stations there are urban or questionable due to close buildings, asphalt, or that stuff among solar panels we see in the Wetter in Sudtirol facebook group.

 

[Amending]

By the way, I believe it is better to show why I believe that the location in that absurd place of the 16020 station is realistic. Watch below the montly averages of it (last line, gray background) and the rural reference station, BZ-Laimburg, which is an agroclimatic about 10 km south from Bolzano in the country.

(it is an intercomparison between integration method averages of stations located near the coolest Italian towns, the final object of interest is the yearly average temperature. It seem that this year L'Aquila (AQ) will be the coolest. From 1992 to 2010, based on available measured data, it was always Belluno (BL) with a couple of draws with Cuneo, Aosta and Biella).

 

[Amending]

Get your facts straight Amending and rid us please of this fixation that I am the mother of all evil of Greece's warm climatology

I need an advice in Greek. How could this be fixed in a nickname?
-Kolasiakos?
-Diavolosakos?
-Antichristakos?

I am just kidding of course

 

[Amending]

Tal como eu achei ao final nada de nada em Atenas-Elefsina. A previsao era de 33ºC de minima e 43ºC de maxima para hoje día 20 de julho, finalmente foi 25ºC de mínima e 36ºC de maxima. Agora ja está baixando a temperatura em Atenas.

Ja 3 anos há que Atenas-Elefsina nao chega a 40ºC. O grego sonha com chegar a 50ºC, a realidade é que poucas vezes chega a 40ºC.

Estes são o máximo da Sicília em 19 de Julho (ainda não disponível a partir de 20)
Sicília tem mantido que a Grécia havia prometido

Quase todas as estações agro-meteorológicas, apenas alguns urbana, mas há dúvidas sobre a estação Campofranco.

 

[J.S.]

Saint Now!

Oh, great. One who has interest for a specific location and plans to place a datalogger there. Great.
Yesterday I was considering this http://cgi.ebay.it/YOUNG-MULTI-PLAT...468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2565bc1b14 for some monitoring I am planning (see below), but I fear that most of dataloggers I have at hand now (Omega OM-63) would not fit inside it. The iButtons would, but I cant travel all the time every 42 days to download the data.

Btw, about Italian meteorological service quality, watch here the WMO station 16020 - Bolzano/Bozen airport (LIPB).

http://www.facebook.com/notes/wette...ozen-krankenhaus-vs-flughafen/252875524727894

The reportage was published by the Hydrographic Office of the province of Bolzano, that noticed surprising and increasing differences between their station located at the hospital and the AM station located at the airport.
I am asking them to publish pictures taken from few meters distance to prove that the WMO station is really among the solar panels, satellite images are not detailed enough.
If it is demonstrated that the station is really there next to local sources of heat that interact with solar radiation, we can rename it from LIPB to LGPB
However I'd like to place a couple of dataloggers near Bolzano in order to assess how mean temperatures really are there, as all the stations there are urban or questionable due to close buildings, asphalt, or that stuff among solar panels we see in the Wetter in Sudtirol facebook group.

I use Tinytag dataloggers, only for temperature. It records minimum, max and av temp over the interval. 10000 K of data . I fyou set a 1 hourinterval, it will be okey for years....It is calibrated but really it is not necessary because all those loggers (I have had acouple of them now) are all within 0,1 K from the factory....But I have it with calibration certificate. Perfect. You can use a couiple of sensors for it, also small ones.

Good luck!

 

[Amending]

I use Tinytag dataloggers, only for temperature. It records minimum, max and av temp over the interval. 10000 K of data . I fyou set a 1 hourinterval, it will be okey for years....It is calibrated but really it is not necessary because all those loggers (I have had acouple of them now) are all within 0,1 K from the factory....But I have it with calibration certificate. Perfect. You can use a couiple of sensors for it, also small ones.

Good luck!

Tinytag? Never heard before.
In Italy the most common dataloggers I read in weather forums are the Oneset Hobo (for 15 minutes logging in alpine dolines), Omega OM-63 (same use), for the most powerful doline some Cryotemp (that can measure down to -90°C) are used, some other one use the Maxim iButtons, but I have never read about Tinytag. Have you got any URL to learn about them please?

However I would set them to 15 min or less; for integration mean there is little difference, but I see appreciable differences between 32seconds, 5 minutes, 15 minutes and 1 hour extremes. I believe 5 minutes is better.
By the way some Italian regional organization is switching to hourly averages, that unfortunately are difficult, memory- and computation-intensive stuff which is not easy to do with dataloggers.

 

[Ferreiro]

HNMS (the Greek MetOffice) has released its Climatic Bulletin of June 2011:
http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_html



The red box shows the average maximum temperature (the blue box, average minimum):
Elefsina 30ºC (Seville airport 34.23ºC. So big difference!!!)
Tatoi 27.7ºC
Helliniko 29ºC
Spata (airport of Athens) 27.1ºC

The average temperature of the month calculated according to the formula
(maximum + minimum) / 2 was as follows:

Elefsina 24.9ºC (Seville airport 26.85ºC)
Helleniko 23.8ºC
Tatoi 22.6ºC
Spata (airport of Athens) 21.85ºC

Remarkable is the enormous difference in temperature between urban stations and airport station (non urban). In fact, the airport of Seville took advantage in 5ºC at the Athens airport, which is an awesome difference.


Data of Seville and the rest of spanish weather stations in june 2011:
http://www.tiempodiario.com/tiempo-mensual/2011-06/?order=t.tmed-DESC

 

[Amending]

HNMS (the Greek MetOffice) has released its Climatic Bulletin of June 2011:
http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_html

The red box shows the average maximum temperature (the blue box, average minimum):
Elefsina 30ºC (Seville airport 34.23ºC. So big difference!!!)
Tatoi 27.7ºC
Helliniko 29ºC
Spata (airport of Athens) 27.1ºC

The average temperature of the month calculated according to the formula
(maximum + minimum) / 2 was as follows:

Elefsina 24.9ºC (Seville airport 26.85ºC)
Helleniko 23.8ºC
Tatoi 22.6ºC
Spata (airport of Athens) 21.85ºC

Remarkable is the enormous difference in temperature between urban stations and airport station (non urban). In fact, the airport of Seville took advantage in 5ºC at the Athens airport, which is an awesome difference.


Data of Seville and the rest of spanish weather stations in june 2011:
http://www.tiempodiario.com/tiempo-mensual/2011-06/?order=t.tmed-DESC

Comparing the montly averages for June 2011 between Sevilla and some selected Greek stations, using the Greek HNMS computation formula for daily mean is even more interesting:

Sevilla S.Pablo 28,8°C (26,7°C integration of 10 minutes samples - - >+2,1°C "Greek formula bias")
Elefsina 25,9°C
Larissa 25,6°C
Helliniko 25,4°C
Tanagra 25,0°C
Tatoi 23,9°C
Spata 22,8°C

So we understand why historical summer Greek means are so high.

Simply, the HNMS mean computation formula produces an incredible overestimation of integration averages compared to (tmin+tmax)/2 and integration mean. And this bias for Andalucia stations is even larger than for Attica stations (perhaps because there are two samples close to tmax and Andalusia tmax are far hotter than Attica ones). Some time ago our dear Greek friend said that the Greek method is more scientific. I would like to know if now that s/he knows that using it Sevilla gets a couple of degrees celsius warmer than athenian stations s/he still thinks so.

In the averages computed using that formula, we can change °C (degrees celsius) to °B (degrees biased).

By the way, days ago I did a quick comparison between Sevilla S.Pablo and some agroclimatic stations in the surrounding areas. Perhaps it is better to treat S.Pablo with caution. There is something strange.

Instead I would like to tribute to Larissa an honour mention. Our dear Greek friend is not telling that to us, perhaps because Larissa is not in Attica, but we see that with its 30,7°C average tmax for June, Larissa knocks out the Athenian stations. It is well known, in fact, that Larissa hits 44°C more easily and more often than Elefsina. It is a hotter place.

 

[J.S.]

Comparing the montly averages for June 2011 between Sevilla and some selected Greek stations, using the Greek HNMS computation formula for daily mean is even more interesting:

Sevilla S.Pablo 28,8°C (26,7°C integration of 10 minutes samples - - >+2,1°C "Greek formula bias")
Elefsina 25,9°C
Larissa 25,6°C
Helliniko 25,4°C
Tanagra 25,0°C
Tatoi 23,9°C
Spata 22,8°C

So we understand why historical summer Greek means are so high.

Simply, the HNMS mean computation formula produces an incredible overestimation of integration averages compared to (tmin+tmax)/2 and integration mean. And this bias for Andalucia stations is even larger than for Attica stations (perhaps because there are two samples close to tmax and Andalusia tmax are far hotter than Attica ones). Some time ago our dear Greek friend said that the Greek method is more scientific. I would like to know if now that s/he knows that using it Sevilla gets a couple of degrees celsius warmer than athenian stations s/he still thinks so.

In the averages computed using that formula, we can change °C (degrees celsius) to °B (degrees biased).

By the way, days ago I did a quick comparison between Sevilla S.Pablo and some agroclimatic stations in the surrounding areas. Perhaps it is better to treat S.Pablo with caution. There is something strange.

Instead I would like to tribute to Larissa an honour mention. Our dear Greek friend is not telling that to us, perhaps because Larissa is not in Attica, but we see that with its 30,7°C average tmax for June, Larissa knocks out the Athenian stations. It is well known, in fact, that Larissa hits 44°C more easily and more often than Elefsina. It is a hotter place.

Exactly what I wrote last : Sevila is fishy (look at a picture and you soon understand why exactly). And Lamia and Larissa are warmer (of course) than Athens because they are low lying in a basin somewhat away from the sea...

 

[Ferreiro]

However, Lamia has a absolute maximum of only 46.5°C (45.2ºC in Larissa), versus 48ºC in Athens-Elefsina and Athens-Tatoi.

http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Lamia
http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Larisa

Personally I think the real greek record is 46.5ºC in Lamia. In the future, 48ºC ​​of Athens will be considered the same as 56ºC in Libya, a fraud.

 

[J.S.]

However, Lamia has a absolute maximum of only 46.5°C (45.2ºC in Larissa), versus 48ºC in Athens-Elefsina and Athens-Tatoi.

http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Lamia
http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Larisa

Personally I think the real greek record is 46.5ºC in Lamia. In the future, 48ºC ​​of Athens will be considered the same as 56ºC in Libya, a fraud.

May be and may be not. If the Greek Meteorological Institute to be trusted like Greece keeps it books, it spells a lot of frauds...But their military airports seem heavily protected and I only found a few pics on the net of Elefsina airport. And not where the abrigo is situated nor what it looks like...

 

[mesogeiakos]

Come on guys,enough with tantrums all over.First June was a colder month in Greece than in Spain.Secondly only recently we have the Nea Filadelfeia data from HNMS bsc until today we had Nea Filadelfeia off for almost a year and finally Amending again you have not being doing your homework.Did we get the Thiseio means for June?Nah!So wait to get those and see if Thiseio is again higher than Larisa.Meanwhile our Italiano friend knows that Thiseio means come out later than HNMS ones

As for J.S I mean come on dear friend.Apart from the cheap comment of Greece's poor book keeping I am not seeing Portugal being a heaven of fiscal reforms and excellent book-keeping.Last time I checked Greece,Portugal and Ireland are in the same boat so spare me your comments of national antagonism.Τhe cheapness of that very comment and in fact its use as an argument(!) is beyond me honestly.Spare me dude!

Now unfortunately we have data from Nea Filadelfeia from 12th of July onwards and off course Larisa is as usual second best.In fact J.S probably forgot that according to the 50years data from HNMS Nea Filadelfeia has the highest mean max in the country for JJA (I mean come on J.S I am surprised with your poor memory).

Enjoy Attica's reign

Meanwhile Nea Filadelfeia yesterday had Greece's highest temp with 36.8C

And dont forget the integrated stats from June 1st between Attica and Andalusia.For the entirety of summer so far Attica in the top spots as usual

Meanwhile the station on the look out for July should be Serres. as the heat wave has affected central Macedonia much more than it has the rest of the country from the day the heat episode started! Probably the highest mean max in the country from HNMS for July 2011.Btw Serres is my birthplace