Como eram e quem eram os Portugueses nativos?

belem

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Mais subtipos originários do Paleolítico:


tommasi.jpg


Tommasi (Itália)

Berid

tydals.jpg


Variedade Tydal (Suécia)


berber_woman3.jpg


Mulher berber.


femme_berberhaiddhue_2.jpg


Rapariga Berber.
 
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Paulo H

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Uau.. Compreendo agora quando referes, que em questão de beleza e atributos, fariam inveja a muita gente da atualidade.. :)

Não estava a pensar que as pessoas de há 10-20mil anos atrás tivessem características mais simiescas, mas esperava que tivessem feições mais acentuadas, pois a população era muito reduzida (em comparação com a atual) assim como as deslocações, preservando-se mais as características das suas linhagens, ao contrário de agora onde o estilo de vida permite que haja muita miscigenação/mistura.

Fiquei deveras impressionado com as imagens! :) embora aquele indivíduo de há 25 mil anos tenha feições já muito acentuadas, em relação à atualidade.

O ideal era que alguém publicasse uma caricatura de cada linhagem, assim ao exceder-se nas feições, iríamos compreender melhor como identificar cada uma.

É um tema bastante interessante! A mulher berid fica parecida à minha avó. A foto do homem da variedade tydal (suécia) fica parecida com um amigo meu..
 

belem

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Não estava a pensar que as pessoas de há 10-20mil anos atrás tivessem características mais simiescas, mas esperava que tivessem feições mais acentuadas, pois a população era muito reduzida (em comparação com a atual) assim como as deslocações, preservando-se mais as características das suas linhagens, ao contrário de agora onde o estilo de vida permite que haja muita miscigenação/mistura.

Os cro-magnon mais antigos, eram já algo diferentes dos últimos.
Mas sim, muitos não eram assim tão rudes, como se pensa.



Fiquei deveras impressionado com as imagens! :) embora aquele indivíduo de há 25 mil anos tenha feições já muito acentuadas, em relação à atualidade.

Sim, sem dúvida, mas o tipo de feições dele, não me são completamente desconhecidas.

Relativamente à população moderna podem até haver pessoas com uma aparência mais rude, e terem uma origem mais recente, do que algumas pessoas com um ar mais leve.

O ideal era que alguém publicasse uma caricatura de cada linhagem, assim ao exceder-se nas feições, iríamos compreender melhor como identificar cada uma.

Complicado, mas quiçá algum dia dê para avançar nesse sentido.


É um tema bastante interessante! A mulher berid fica parecida à minha avó. A foto do homem da variedade tydal (suécia) fica parecida com um amigo meu..

Interessante!
 
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belem

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Westalpinids are most likely Berid derived. You could argue that the original Cromagnoid form of the South first reduced partly, and then split up into the more agil and mobile Westmediterranid forms (Atlantomediterranid and Gracilmediterranid, depending on regional structures and socioeconomic specialisation) and the stagnating, but partly infantilised (not brachycephalised!) Cromagnoid form of Berids and the typical sedentary farmer type of the poorer and higher areas the Westalpinid, generally reduced and brachycephalised form.
We can assume that other elements played in as well, but basically the differences are more due selection into a certain direction than original differences of respective source populations. But formally, by form and specialisation, Gracilmediterranids are obviously closer to Capellids. Berids are reduced Cromagnoids in the Mediterranoid spectrum as are Dalofaelids Cromagnoids in the Nordoid spectrum.

An explanation of reduction as a pattern of adaption to warm, poor and isolated environments (other reasons are possible as well obviously):



Its clearly visible in the tendency from Boskopids to Sanids as well - but that was in a dry-hot environment and endurance was needed, whereas Alpinids lived as poor farmers in rather biologically isolated-sedentary, but social controlled and dependent environments in which they didnt needed endurance while hunting, but while standing plagues, monotonous work (for which they need strength - not endurance), hunger and "should" avoid risk taking and be as early and successful fertile as possible in a temperate and temperate cold moisty environment.
Berids are basically related to the Northern Palaeatlantids, but they are darker, reduced, partly more infantile than they are and live mostly in the poorer, unfavourable (for agriculture) regions of South Western Europe.


I would say that Berids are half-Alpinised Southern Cromagnoids. So Berids are rather the relict of what the ancestors of Westalpinids were in the past. So if looking at Westalpinids, Berids and Gracilmediterranids, we have to look at what factors, given environment (higher-lower, wet-dry, hot-cold, high-low energy, sedentary-mobile, dependent-independent structures etc, etc.) might have lead to the differences. Lundmans approach is good, My idea would be poor sedentary farmers in colder isolated environment with many plagues (especially tuberculosis) became first Westalpinid farmers and spread as typical farmer type, Berids H-G in harsh environment, so partial, but different reduction, Gracilmediterranids living in favourable and warm climate, Atlantomediterranids in areas with good nutrition and high mobility+group selection and specialised in higher social stratification.»
 

frederico

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Sempre me intrigou o facto de muitas nórdicas terem cabelos escuros e pele com tom moreno!

Nas ilhas britânicas há muitas pessoas com traços de ibérico, isso explica-se pois após a ultima glaciação os povos da PI terão colonizado o arquipélago, especialmente a Irlanda, o País de Gales e o Sul de Inglaterra.

Catherine Zeta-Jones (País de Gales)

CZJ.jpg


Sean Connery (Escócia)

sean-connery-007.jpg


Cheryl Cole (Inglaterra)

Cheryl+Cole+attends+the+%22Habemus+Papam%22+Premiere+in+Cannes



The Bee Gees (Isle of Man)

beegeesyoung.jpg


The Corrs (Irlanda)

the-corrs-sisters-caroline-andrea-and-sharon-at-the-hot-press-rock-awards-in-dublin-october-1999.jpg


Discussão sobre o tema:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080426045526AArDHyY

Black Irish: http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/who-were-Black-Irish-133290803.html
 

belem

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É pena que não se façam reconstruções faciais de restos paleolíticos ou mesolíticos de Portugal, pois assim teriamos mais uma ferramenta importante para fazer comparações.

Em Muge existem vários restos ósseos, por exemplo.

De qualquer forma, já se tem uma ideia de como eram alguns cro-magnon (através de várias reconstruções, medições, etc...) e a comparação com as pessoas modernas é assim bem mais fácil.
 

belem

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Cromagnon na Rússia:




Outro detalhe que ainda está em avaliação, é a resistência destas linhagens pré-históricas (Berid, Tydal, etc...), a certas doenças consideradas graves nos dias de hoje.
 
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belem

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«The Coarse Mediterranean is the first type of Mediterranean that entered Europe going back to the Mesolithic and earlier, its the Basic White of Lawrence Angel and the Europoid Archaic of Biasutti, the Southern Cromagnon of Lundman aka Berid

Os Berid são claramente uma das populações pré-históricas de caçadores recoletores da Peninsula Ibérica.





Sobre o conceito de raça e ecótipo:

«On the Concept of Biological Race and Its Applicability to Humans
Massimo Pigliucci and Jonathan Kaplan
http://people.oregonstate.edu/~kaplanj/2003-PhilSc-race.pdf

"Biological research on race has often been seen as motivated by or lending credence to underlying racist attitudes; in part for this reason, recently philosophers and biologists have gone through great pains to essentially deny the existence of biological human races. We argue that human races, in the biological sense of local populations adapted to particular environments, do in fact exist; such races are best understood through the common ecological concept of ecotypes. However, human ecotypic races do not in general correspond with ‘folk’ racial categories, largely because many similar ecotypes have multiple independent origins. Consequently, while human natural races exist, they have little or nothing in common with ‘folk’ races."

"Races, then, can be defined and picked out in a number of ways. Several ways of picking out races will likely overlap because of the nature of biological organisms; for example, if a population is ecologically distinct (e.g., it lives at high elevations) it is also likely to be geographically isolated (by virtue of occurring in a location at high elevation) and to be somewhat genetically differentiated. But while genetic and phenotypic differences between local populations will often be associated with phylogenetic distinctiveness, such differences do not imply phylogenetic distinctiveness, nor, a fortiori, do they imply incipient speciation. For a lineage to acquire phylogenetic distinctiveness, gene flow with other closely related populations must essentially cease. If gene flow is still significant, the lineage is evolving according to a reticulate, not cladistic (branching) pattern. While it is still possible for such an entity to maintain
ecological distinctiveness (see below), its historical roots are continuously reshuffled by migration events. Thus, while ecogeographical-genetic differentiation tend to correlate with each other they do not imply cladogenesis and speciation, though the latter two are themselves associated.

That biologically meaningful races do not have to be phylogenetically distinct is obvious when we consider the case of ecotypes. The concept of ecotype was introduced by Turesson (1922) to describe genetically based specific responses of plants to certain environmental conditions, although the idea has been applied to the animal literature as well. The King and Stansfield’s dictionary defines an ecotype as a ‘‘Race (within a species) genetically adapted to a certain environment.’’ It is important to understand three things about ecotypes: (1) there must be a connection between genetic differentiation and ecological adaptation, (2) ecotypes are not (necessarily) phylogenetic units; rather, they are functional-ecological entities, and (3) ecotypes can be differentiated on the basis of many or a very few genetic differences.

These facts about ecotypes have several important implications. Similar ecotypic characteristics can and do evolve independently in geographically separated populations (see McPeek and Wellborn 1998). These similar phenotypic characteristics may, or may not, be mediated by similar genetic differences from other populations of the species (see Schlichting and Pigliucci 1998, 142–146, and cites therein). Further, gene flow between different ecotypes is relatively common (see Futuyma 1998, and cites therein); if there is sufficient selective pressure to maintain the genetic differences associated with the different adaptive phenotypes, other genes, not so associated, may flow freely between the populations. Further, because different ecologically important characteristics are not guaranteed to coincide, a single population can consist of multiple overlapping ecotypes. In such cases, whether two organisms belong to the same ecotype will depend on which ecotype one is referring to."

"Rather, human evolution seems to have been marked by extensive gene flow. While this implies that there are not now, nor ever were, biologically significant human races that corresponded to populations that had been phylogenetically separate for some significant period of time (contra Andreasen 1998), it does not imply, as some authors have argued, that there can be no significant biological races in humans. As we saw above in the case of ecotypes, adaptive genetic differentiation can be maintained between populations by natural selection even where there is significant gene flow between the populations. Templeton (1999), for example, notes that gene flow sufficient to ensure that distinct populations evolve together as a single species is compatible with the populations having distinct, genetically mediated, phenotypic adaptations. For example, he notes that there are populations of Drosophila mercatorum in Hawaii that ‘‘show extreme differentiation and local adaptation’’ yet have significant gene flow between them.

Lewontin and Gould have made much of the fact that there is relatively little genetic variation in Homo sapiens (compared at least to other mammals; see Templeton 1999) and that most of what genetic diversity is known to exist within Homo sapiens exists within (rather than between) local populations (see, for example, Gould 1996; Lewontin et al. 1984), and these facts are cited repeatedly in arguments concluding that there are no biologically significant human races. But the idea that this data might imply something about the existence of biologically significant human races emerges from a focus on the wrong sort of biological races. The relative lack of genetic variation between populations compared with within population samples does imply that the populations have not been reproductively isolated for any evolutionarily significant length of time. But of course, this fact is irrelevant for the consideration of races based on adaptive variation; in this case, if there is extensive gene flow, genetic variation can be mostly within groups, rather than between groups, as variations not related to the adaptive phenotypic differences between the populations will be spread by gene flow relatively easily. The question is not whether there are significant levels of between-population genetic variation overall, but whether there is variation in genes associated with significant adaptive differences between populations (see our discussion in Kaplan and Pigliucci 2001).

So, if we conceive of races similarly to the way ecotypes are conceived of, it is clear that much of the evidence used to suggest that there are no biologically significant human races is, in fact, irrelevant. As long as differences between populations can be maintained because of their adaptive significance, races can exist despite extensive gene flow between populations. The questions, then, are as follows: Do such conditions exist in the human case? and: Did such conditions exist during the course of human evolution such that the resultant differences might still be detectable today (though perhaps no longer actively maintained)?"

"Given the difficulty with testing hypotheses regarding the adaptive significance of behavioral tendencies in humans simpliciter (Lewontin 1998), the lack of evidence for behavioral (and/or intellectual) ecotypes in humans is not surprising. But it is intellectually dishonest to move from the lack of evidence for such differences to claiming that there is evidence for an absence of such differences, a move all too often made (oddly enough, both by Gould and by some of his opponents in ‘‘evolutionary psychology’’ (see, for example, Gould 1996, Tooby and Cosmides 1990))."

"A cline is a pattern of gradual variation of one or more characters, usually—but not exclusively—along a latitudinal or altitudinal range. Again, gene flow can be extensive through clines, as long as selective pressures are sufficient to maintain the genetic differences associated with adaptations to the ecologically important conditions (e.g., Jordan et al. 2001, Futuyma 1998). Given the wide geographical distribution of human populations over evolutionarily significant periods of time (Templeton 1999), it would be surprising if human populations did not show any clinal variation in ecologically important characteristics. The key points made above regarding ecotypes—that they may or may not be phylogenetic units and may or may not limit gene flow—also hold true for clinal variations, as does the observation that an individual may simultaneously be a member of multiple different ecotypes (as in multiclinal variation).

Of course, this implies that insofar as we focus on an ecotype conception of race, there will not necessarily be a unique ‘‘race’’ to which any given member of a population belongs. Any given individual may in fact belong to a number of different ecotypic races, and/or be a member of one (or more) intermediate population(s) within a (series of) clinal distribution(s). However, this is hardly an unexpected complication in a discipline like biology, characterized by a high level of complexity of both the object of study and the conditions that induce variation in that object.

The problem posed by clines, then, is no different from that posed by any other gradual transition, and provides no reason to reject the possibility of the existence of biologically significant human races."

"As we have seen, insofar as biologically meaningful races are conceptualized as populations more like ecotypes than like incipient species, many of the arguments purporting to show that there are no human races miss their mark. While in nonhuman biology the term ‘‘race’’ has been and is being used in a variety of ways, the best way of making sense of systematic variation within the human species is likely to rely on the ecotypic conception of biological races. In this sense, there are likely human races (ecotypes) of biological interest."

"While it is valuable for biologists to note that the essentialist conception of human races has no support in biology whenever particular claims are made that seem predicated on such a conception (e.g., Herrnstein and Murray’s 1994 work on race and intelligence), they should not fall into the trap of claiming that there is no systematic variation within human populations of interest to biology."
 

belem

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«Spain and Portugal showing very few common ancestors with other populations over the last 2,500 years.»

Nas populações usadas no estudo, apenas a Itália teve resultados semelhantes.

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555



«HLA-A, -B, -DRB1, -DQA1, and DQB1 alleles were studied in Iberian and Algerian populations by serology and DNA sequence methodologies. The genetic and cultural relatedness among Basques, Spaniards, and paleo-North Africans (Berbers or Tamazights) was established. Portuguese people have also maintained a certain degree of cultural and ethnic-specific characteristics since ancient times. The results of the present HLA study in Portuguese populations show that they have features in common with Basques and Spaniards from Madrid: a high frequency of the HLA-haplotypes A29-B44-DR7 (ancient western Europeans), A2-B7-DR15 (ancient Europeans and paleo-North Africans), and A1-B8-DR3 (Europeans) are found as common characteristics. Portuguese and Basques do not show the Mediterranean A33-B14-DR1 haplotype, suggesting a lower admixture with Mediterraneans; Spaniards and Algerians do have this haplotype in a relatively high frequency, indicating a more extensive Mediterranean genetic influence. The paleo-North African haplotype A30-B18-DR3 present in Basques, Algerians, and Spaniards is not found in Portuguese either. The Portuguese have a characteristic unique among world populations: a high frequency of HLA-A25-B18-DR15 and A26-B38-DR13, which reflect a still detectable founder effect coming from ancient Portuguese, i.e., oestrimnios and conios; Basques and Algerians also show specific haplotypes, A11-B27-DR1 and A2-B35-DR11, respectively, probably showing a relatively lower degree of admixture. A neighbor-joining dendrogram place Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians closer to each other and more separated from other populations. Genetic, cultural, geological, and linguistic evidence also supports the hypothesis that people coming from a fertile Saharan area emigrated towards the north (southern Europe, Mesopotamia, the Mediterranean Islands, and the North African coast) when the climate changed drastically to hotter and drier ca 10 000 years B.C.
PMID: 9382919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] »
 
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belem

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«Today Spain and Portugal are the only European countries in which the population is principally of Mediterranean race although the southern half of Italy is strongly Mediterranean and that the racial type is well represented in in southern France and in England, Wales, and Ireland.»

-Earnest Hooton




«There is no unity of type in any of these seven Latin linguistic families. Among the Languedocian-Catalans we distinguish the presence of at least three races: Western or Cevenole, which prevails on the central table-lands of France, Littoral or Atlanto-Mediterranean, predominant in Provence and Catalonia; Ibero-insular, which we find in Angoumois as in Catalonia (see p. 329, and Map 2). In the same way we may perceive in the Italian group the existence of representatives of almost all the European races (except the Northern); we have only to recall the striking contrast between the Venetian, tall, chestnut coloured, brachycephalic, and the inhabitant of Southern Italy, short, dark, and dolichocephalic. It is among the Portuguese, perhaps, that we find the greatest unity of type; the majority of them belong to the Ibero-insular race, except in the north of the country, where we find intermixtures with the Western race, as among the Galicians of Spain.»


-Joseph Deniker
 

belem

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Berid (claramente predominante):

troe224.jpg

FIG. 4 (3 views). A very dark-skinned, large-headed mesocephalic Mediterranean from Beira Alta in Portugal, with heavy beard and body hair. Many of the Portuguese belong to this more robust Mediterranean sub-variety, which is also common in southern Italy, and may have been one of the earliest Mediterranean elements to arrive in southwestern Europe.
 
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belem

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«An Iberian perspective on Upper Paleolithic plant consumption»


http://www.academia.edu/1083949/An_Iberian_perspective_on_Upper_Paleolithic_plant_consumption


O autor esqueceu-se que em Portugal, existiram praticamente todas as mesmas espécies de coníferas que existem em Espanha. Em tempos modernos, muitas destas espécies já se encontram novamente presentes no nosso país, devido a plantios feitos pelo Homem.



«Use Of Plants In The European Palaeolithic: A Review Of The Evidence»


http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/Hort_306/reading/reading 2-2.pdf