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Tópico em 'Europa' iniciado por Mesogiakos 3 Dez 2012 às 10:29.
And here is the final table for 2007-2012 means in Palaiohora.
For 2012 Palaiohora has tied it's 2010 mean annual temperature of 21.04C.The 6 year average annual temperature is an amazing 20.72C.
Enjoy the full stats
These are Davis stations I guess? Those are not calibrated. Which shield was used. New tests in the field in Algeria have shown their (parttime) artificially ventilated shields to be prone to warming under warm and dry conditions...COuld be caused by dust gathering in the fan, unsure. Like you can read form the report
"Other artificially ventilated screens gave disappointing results, with quite warm temperatures in case of solar radiation. This may be due to their design and/or some faults in the ventilation during the test (dust and sand reducing the ventilation efficiency). For example, the ventilated DAVIS gave worst results (warmer temperatures during day) than the passive DAVIS, which was not expected."
The sensor used by Davis is a sensirion SHT 11. It has deviations of 0,4 at best to 1,5 at worst over the range of -40 to +60 or so. Davis' itself has compensated for this but still 0,5 to 1 or 1,5 C differences are to be expected based on the sensor solely..So not considering the Shield used...
It is my experience with Davis weatherstations too I am afraid. I use them for the net and calibrated loggers in the field and the differences are real...
We also need to know where those stations are sited. In a city, near a city, between shrubs etc. Otherwise it is all pretty meaningless if we want ot be exact.
Yeah its Davis pro2 fan aspirated (full time ventilation btw) and yes the NOA administration calibrates them regularly plus they are very well shielded by solar radiation .Generally their accuracy is really good,the best in the free market actually, leaving aside the ones used by the national authorities.But no worries the HNMS station in Palaiohora is even warmer with around 20.9C mean annual for the same period.
What your subjective experience or a random test of a part time ventilated station in a different area shows is irrelevant and says nothing on how the academic personel of the National Observatory of Athens overlooks and calibrates it's stations.Come on,It's south Crete.No matter how u look at it (either from this NOA station or the HNMS station) we are talking about the absolute champion of mean annual temperatures in Europe.No biggie
PS.Next time u quote a study,give the full and exact reference for cross checking or the relevant link as well
May be you should be sure about what you say when you say something. The radiation shields of Davis are not very well shielded. As the study shows (and I suggest you take some trouble looking it up instead of realying on others consistently to educate you) calibration of the instruments itself is not the problem. As the test was a sensorscreen and not a thermometer test, the errors are due to construction errors which give away to radiation errors. Inspite of ventilaton.
Are there two weatherstations active in that place with different equipment?
I was not aware of any contest between nonexisting entities. But you mean that I should not be amazed by this. I was not amazed by it, but I am critical to any data that seems very extreme. It does not matter where it is. Crete being warmer than any other place in europe on average is another story. it seems likely and easy to explain. It is surrounded by a sea that is very warm on average. much warmer than the Antlantic ocean near Iberia. And there you go. May be that calls for a celebration ("yes, we are the warmest on average in europe. Hurray!!")??
What I do know about people that take a stance like you is that there needs to be extra care towards their assertions. They do not seem to be based solely on ratio but on desires too. Pushing the truth can be a result we have seen more than once.
Take some trouble yourself. I rarely react on suspiscion or orders from people I don't know or who may be are troubled by paranoia.
Who gives a shit on how u react? Show me the full and exact reference so I can cross check what the entire study says until then as I said an irrelevant study of a different area with different conditions and which is also a different kind of Davis station says nothing on the validity of the Palaiohora station.I know u might be confused but next time try to compare the exact models, at least one pro2 fan aspirated.It's pretty basic u know mate.As for the rest I know it might appear ''too extreme'' for you but on the other hand u are clueless when it comes to Cretan climate so no biggie there.That's why I am here to inform people.
Both stations are spot on and the official one from HNMS is even warmer.Yep Palaiohora doesnt have any trouble ruling over Europe from any station.Come on, deal with it
Btw here is a direct comparison of the exact same models, one in Palaiohora and one in urban Seville for 2012.Huge differences.Yes South Crete rules!
Seville Davis Vantage Pro2 fan asp 2012 annual output
Palaiohora Davis Vantage Pro2 fan asp 2012 annual output
I am pretty confident that you can not and will not find any Davis Pro2 fan aspirated station anywhere in Europe systematically warmer than Palaiohora or any Southern Cretan for that matter.
speack what u want greek, the truth is that in athens its snowing right now with -1ºC and we have 14ºC in lisbon.
You are responding. You care a whole lot about what the world thinks about the climate in Greece. Hence your crucade and your replies ot me and others. if you only would know how little anyone cares about these things. It only matters to a few and it seems to you especially.
I never knew climatic averages were done in weatherstations made by Davis and its sluggish sensors. It is an excellent product for us. Not for Meteorological institutes. Not on its own. it is not even good enough for me. So I use calibrated loggers and note the difference. For many reasons. As said: not being accurate enough, slow response and a faulty sensorscreen (yes, the ventilated ones) are some of the reasons.
When I ask a barcelona supporter which team is the best ever I know the answer. Likewise with you. Somehow I have the feeling asking you about the warmest place in europe will always end up somewhere in Greece. Now, we are not arguing that this is inplausible, but I prefer a more realistic and less sensationalist tune.
Palaiahora..meaures 6 years in the quoted table. 2007-2012. 1983-2012 is the norm for climatological averages. It will be lower as the Greek climate has heated up quite a bit like most of us in europe. 2007-2012 will give us a much higher average than 1983-2012 will. Let alone 1971-2000 or 1961-1990 which is the standard in most countries. So at least here, you compare apples and oranges.
I have not come across any picture of the stations. How are they sited, are they in or near buildings? Concrete? Runways? Roads?
In true fanboystyle you have shown a very critical stance to Italian and Spanish stations noting some remarkable (and probably faulty) readings. I fail to see the same rigor when it comes to the Greek ones. Another sign of double standards and a strong urge to get some preferential outcome.
And that is why you by and large fail to reach people who ARE interested. On the Italian forum and on this once you meet resistance. People do not accept what you say. I think because it is clear you are very biased and also because of your tone. You are telling others how things are, you are not convincing them. As said: clear double standards. Not a strong incentive to change someones mind, as you have noticed I guess and that is why 3 years onwards you are still feeling the need ot argue. With the same people mostly. Good luck.
Voltando a Palaiohora e ao sul de Creta.
Palaiohora fica quase dentro de água. Existem muitos outros locais em Creta que devem ter maior potencial para temperaturas médias anuais maiores.
Basta olhar para o mapa do terreno:
O vale de Mires, encaixado nas montanhas, por exemplo.
Mas já que falamos de ilhas, porque não falar do Chipre (Cyprus)?
Os vales da costa sul do Chipre parecem-me ainda mais encaixados. Já para não falar da água do mar que é em média mais quente que em Creta.
That won't make the temperatures higher on average. Those valleys will have lower nighttime and higher daytime temperatures . You'll see inland spring being warmer on average and autum-coast being warmer.
look at Portugal and Spain: the warmest asverage anual temperatures are found on the southern coasts.
Chipre: looked it up already: about 20,0 C is the annual average in the warmest places. But Chipre is Asia.
Os vales teem noites muito mais frias...o que acontece em Palaiohora deve ter a ver com a falta de inversões térmicas e a proximidade ao mar, que resulta em minimas muito altas ( proximas á SST que anda pelos 26-28ºC no Verão).
Os vales talvez ja tenham minimas muito mais parecidas ás do Interior sul da PI, 16-20ºC..pois drenam o ar frio do interior criando bolsas de inversão.
Outra coisa é que os ventos dominantes de N devem sofrer algum efeito de fohen ao passar as montanhas do interior de Creta..
Em Pt continental, assim minimamente parecido, só temos a Arrabida...talvez fosse interessante meter uma estação tipo no Portinho ou na Figueirinha..devem ter pelo menos as minimas bem mais altas do que qualquer outro ponto da costa ocidental.
Isso nem sempre é regra, J.S.
Em Portugal continental, estima-se que os locais com a temperatura média anual mais elevada são os vales a sudeste da serra de Monchique, no Algarve.
De qualquer forma, não será a região leste, de Zakros e Goudouras mais quentes que Palaiochora?
Quanto ao Chipre, o país até pode ser geograficamente asiático, mas em termos de comparação (latitude, o facto de ser uma ilha, etc), tem muito mais sentido de comparação do que comparar Creta a Portugal, Espanha, Itália, etc.
E sobre a temperatura média, não há estações, mas há as temperaturas médias do mar.
Em Creta (Heraklion) a temperatura média anual do mar é de 19,7ºC, ao passo que em Limassol (Chipre), a temperatura média anual do mar é de 21,7ºC.
Portanto, o sul do Chipre, nem que seja pelo simples facto de ter médias da temperatura da água mais elevadas que Creta, deve ter locais cuja temperatura média do anual do ar deve rondar os 21ºC, ou ligeiramente mais.
Não e uma regra, mas e quase sempre correcto. "Estimar"" e uma coisa que não gosto muito. O que nos sabemos e que Faro esta na zona mais quente que nos conhecimos, não e? Talvez ha umas locais um bocadinho mais quente, mas não muito.
Quando temos um mar que esta fresco o muito fresco (como na costa Marroquinha) o interior a baixo altitude esta mais quente. Mas em Creta acho que isto não e muito provavel.
Sobre Chipre...a um lado..pois, esta numa situação parecido que Creta. E as temperaturas estão um bocada mais baixo. 1 grau. Penso que Chipre fica numa posição melhor para estar mais quento do que Creta, mas não tenho certza. Oq ue nos precisamos são dados fiaveis, penso eu. E não so dados dos ultimos 5-10 anos....
Na minha opinião, ainda não existe informação suficiente para determinar com clareza quais os locais com a maior temperatura média anual de Portugal continental. Faltam muitas medições (nem que sejam temporárias), em muitas das regiões de clima mais quente.
Quanto muito, podem haver aproximações.
And that's the magic of Greece!Btw it snowed 2 days ago in Athens and I reported it over in the UK forum.It was only snow flurries in the center but still it was good enough!Btw it was not -1 in the center.The lowest was +0.9C
oh pls cry me a river,will u?
btw get ur shit str8 mate.I am not comparing different periods.I only compared 2007-2012 and NOT a single station in Europe beats Palaiohora.Deal with it
As for the rest moaning and groaning spare us.Go cry somewhere else.Unless and until u provide me with the whole study I asked u are just a winning irrelevant out of touch person.I can also say that u are a totally biased,unworthy and unable to provide basic research when asked and most definitely u would fail a first year uni course.Now show me the study or I can also continue the personal criticism that u so much love to bring as an argument in the conversation.
Dont be a cheap crap and give me the data I asked.Until then bow in Southern Crete and cry me a river.