Local mais quente de Portugal ? 50°C é possível ?

[J.S.]

Oficialmente, a mais elevada é de N. Filadelfeia, Atenas, com 33,5!

Trikala é consistentemente baixas quando comparadas com Larisa


Mas para Gualdaquivir acho Andujar poderia ter cerca de 37,5!

I found 34,7 C at Trikkala, but for a very short period. It confirms what I saw in the library.

See here: http://www.ucm.es/info/cif/station/gr-trikk.htm

Larissa for 31 years:
http://www.ucm.es/info/cif/station/gr-laris.htm

Anyway it is quite low lying and inland. Athens is near to the sea so it is less likely to become as hot. I guess this valley has the most potential.

In spain, the highest you can get from any credible station is near 37 C. Andujar could be one of those places, but any place between Palma del Rio and Andujar could reach 36-37 C.

As I wrote above, there is very good reason the be carefull with stations that goes above those values as we see winter temperatures rise much aswell. This is not compatible with a more continental climate but it is compatible with a station that is influenced by other factors. There are station in Spain that go to 39,6 (Coria) as datime maximum temperatures but have extremely high wintertemperatures aswell. Simply not to be trusted. But read the discussion (it is a bit lentghy).

What I remeber about Greece is this cold wave in LArissa where they got to
-20 C somewhere in 2000 or I guess 2001!! Even where I live in The Netherlands, this is rare. We got down to -20,7 in 2005...in March. But it is rare. And in summer we got to 37,0 in 2006 which is exceptionally hot!

But it is nice, summer are now warmer and unfortunately winters too. So less snow (but still 68 days this year in places) and less ice...

Greetings to Greece!

 

[mesogeiakos]

No, there is a station near Trikkala reaches 35 C. I read it in the library over here. But it could be 35,4 or 34,5. The highest I ever saw in Portugal was shown to me jsut yet: 34,8 in Moura from 1941 to 1963. But currently it has risen a bot and 35,0- 35,5 is most likely the value for 1971-2000.

The Guadalquivir region reaches slightly higher values and it tops of near 36,5.
Warm enough if you ask me! But it is a much bigger region You could travel for hours and be in the same heath all the time, in Portugal it is more confined to some smaller valleys.

oops..sorry just realised you answered back in English

Well in Thessaly the highest official mean max we have from a time series of at least 30years is in Larisa airport with 33.1C

Generally speaking Trikala is usually cooler compared to Larisa and this is confirmed from our davis stations almost yearly.

Now maybe you have seen 35.0C for a smaller period.This is absolutely possible!For example even in Athens for a period of 17 years(the last 17years) the average in Thiseio is an amazing 35.2C!!

For the most part of what you say about Portugal I agree.I believe that we need to have clear cut facts from WMO stations for a long period...Then we can be sure.That is why I gave my estimation of up to 34.5 for Portugal and around 34.0 for Greece.

Again my 37.5 estimation for Andujar simply reflects the current reality based on the current overall warming period we have in Europe and especially in South europe..

 

[mesogeiakos]

I found 34,7 C at Trikkala, but for a very short period. It confirms what I saw in the library.

See here: http://www.ucm.es/info/cif/station/gr-trikk.htm

Larissa for 31 years:
http://www.ucm.es/info/cif/station/gr-laris.htm

Anyway it is quite low lying and inland. Athens is near to the sea so it is less likely to become as hot. I guess this valley has the most potential.

In spain, the highest you can get from any credible station is near 37 C. Andujar could be one of those places, but any place between Palma del Rio and Andujar could reach 36-37 C.

As I wrote above, there is very good reason the be carefull with stations that goes above those values as we see winter temperatures rise much aswell. This is not compatible with a more continental climate but it is compatible with a station that is influenced by other factors. There are station in Spain that go to 39,6 (Coria) as datime maximum temperatures but have extremely high wintertemperatures aswell. Simply not to be trusted. But read the discussion (it is a bit lentghy).

What I remeber about Greece is this cold wave in LArissa where they got to
-20 C somewhere in 2000 or I guess 2001!! Even where I live in The Netherlands, this is rare. We got down to -20,7 in 2005...in March. But it is rare. And in summer we got to 37,0 in 2006 which is exceptionally hot!

But it is nice, summer are now warmer and unfortunately winters too. So less snow (but still 68 days this year in places) and less ice...

Greetings to Greece!

Please no more data from Martinez!He collects unofficial data from 1600 for Spain!!Come on.

According to the Greek authorities the max is 33.1 in Thessaly and 33.5 in Athens

I am not sure if you know this but the Athens basin has one of the most complex geomoprhologies in the world

 

[belem]

Acabo de ver os dados de Moura .... mas eu acho que são problemáticas ..

eles são apenas 22 anos. Normalmente precisamos de uma série temporal de pelo menos 30 anos.

Por exemplo, há 21 anos na Grécia, temos Sparti com 34.7C (1950-1971) ou por 17 anos, temos Thiseio, Atenas, com 35,2!

Tem toda a razão, obrigado pelo seu reparo.
Eu acho que os dados do IM, apenas serviram para nos falar de locais com boas probabilidades de serem muito quentes, mas que claro, não substituem os dados de uma estação meteorológica.
Por isso, tenho andado a colectar dados para saber onde será interessante, nesses locais apresentados pelo IM, fazer a instalação de estações meteorológicas.

 

[J.S.]

oops..sorry just realised you answered back in English

Well in Thessaly the highest official mean max we have from a time series of at least 30years is in Larisa airport with 33.1C

Generally speaking Trikala is usually cooler compared to Larisa and this is confirmed from our davis stations almost yearly.

Now maybe you have seen 35.0C for a smaller period.This is absolutely possible!For example even in Athens for a period of 17 years(the last 17years) the average in Thiseio is an amazing 35.2C!!

For the most part of what you say about Portugal I agree.I believe that we need to have clear cut facts from WMO stations for a long period...Then we can be sure.That is why I gave my estimation of up to 34.5 for Portugal and around 34.0 for Greece.

Again my 37.5 estimation for Andujar simply reflects the current reality based on the current overall warming period we have in Europe and especially in South europe..

Martinez: thanks for the info. I found the data completely odd but with some effot you can deduce the correct ones from the outliers. It is not that difficult but it remains a risky business.
Besides, there is a agrometeorological cahin in Andalucia that also specifies how they measure (PT1000 elements etc). It confirms values of 37,0 C over the last 9 years in various stations over there. These data are very homogenous.


Currently in Portugal, Amareleja has the highest temperatures known which are, if I am correct 34,5 in august for the period 1961-1990. The data at Moura which is about 100 m lower and nearby are of course no 30 year period and we do not know what the standard is, yet if calculated I come to a value of 35,2 for the valley there for the 1961-1990 period. There is some margin of error, but it is reasonably credible at least.

We have an agrometeorological stations near Moura, but at a higher altitude. I contacted the meteorlogist of the stationchain (about 30 stations in Alentejo and Algarve) and he assured me they measure according to WMO standards in a mail. In general this station measures the same as Amareleja give or take 0,2 K. It is at the same hight. All indications are that the lower parts of the valley can be 0,5 to 0,8 K warmer. But we cannot be sure...

The value of Trikkala was found in a meteorological book that had at least 1000 station all over the world...

On the KNMI site, Trikkala is not found but Lamia is and over the period 1951-1980 the average max is 33,9 C...What is your info on that?

 

[mesogeiakos]

Btw I also wanted to give another clue for Athens basin...According to the WMO stations in Europe, Athens is the warmest area of Europe in mean summer temperatures!

I am not kidding here

 

[belem]

Btw I also wanted to give another clue for Athens basin...According to the WMO stations in Europe, Athens is the warmest area of Europe in mean summer temperatures!

I am not kidding here

Sim, que se tenha conhecimento ainda é.

 

[mesogeiakos]

On the KNMI site, Trikkala is not found but Lamia is and over the period 1951-1980 the average max is 33,9 C...What is your info on that?

32.8 in Lamia according to Greeek authorities!Generally speaking according to Greek official sources you will not find anything higher than the 33.5 in July in Athens.


Now for Amareleja it seems credible..I check the Amareleja temps almost daily and most of the days it seems to have the highest dynamic in Portugal...but as you said..we can never be sure!

 

[J.S.]

Btw I also wanted to give another clue for Athens basin...According to the WMO stations in Europe, Athens is the warmest area of Europe in mean summer temperatures!

I am not kidding here

Lamia was over 9 years I see now, so that indeed is incorrect.

Athins: I believe you right away! High minimum temperatures over there of course help! Maxima are lower than Guadalquivir stations of course or Portuguese interior, but you more than compensate that with the minima!

Anyway: are you actually happy with that?? I live in The Netherlands and I have to say that 25-26 C is what I like the most. We had 10 of those days ths july and 1 with 30+. And that is enough for me! My averages for july (measured virtually according to WMO standards btw!) were 14,1 C as an average minimum and 23,5 C as the average maximum. This winter, the average temperature for the whole winter was 1,8 C. Not too bad, but nothing special. After all those warm winters people thought this was severe! It was cold....not severe, very severe or extreme (which are the official gradations).

I love winter much more than summer. Supernice with snow and brilliant pictures. Only downside: when it is mild it rains all the time. Anad december and january I leave to work in the dark and I come back home and it is already dark. Depressing there is no sun...

 

[J.S.]

32.8 in Lamia according to Greeek authorities!Generally speaking according to Greek official sources you will not find anything higher than the 33.5 in July in Athens.


Now for Amareleja it seems credible..I check the Amareleja temps almost daily and most of the days it seems to have the highest dynamic in Portugal...but as you said..we can never be sure!

We can for this station. It has a record of more than 30 years so...As I said 34,5 is what I believe is the correct number,.

I check daily too for years now and I think Amareleja and Moura (Herdade dos Lameiroes, Agrometeo) for some reason are warming up faster. Well, at least the the temperatures are always very close to Cordoba. This year, the average july max of Amareleja was 38,0 C and that is exactly the value of Cordoba. Herdade dos Lameiroes went up to 37,8 C. It is pretty warm.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Lamia was over 9 years I see now, so that indeed is incorrect.

Athins: I believe you right away! High minimum temperatures over there of course help! Maxima are lower than Guadalquivir stations of course or Portuguese interior, but you more than compensate that with the minima!

Anyway: are you actually happy with that?? I live in The Netherlands and I have to say that 25-26 C is what I like the most. We had 10 of those days ths july and 1 with 30+. And that is enough for me! My averages for july (measured virtually according to WMO standards btw!) were 14,1 C as an average minimum and 23,5 C as the average maximum. This winter, the average temperature for the whole winter was 1,8 C. Not too bad, but nothing special. After all those warm winters people thought this was severe! It was cold....not severe, very severe or extreme (which are the official gradations).

I love winter much more than summer. Supernice with snow and brilliant pictures. Only downside: when it is mild it rains all the time. Anad december and january I leave to work in the dark and I come back home and it is already dark. Depressing there is no sun...

I like the warm statistics a lot!!But I cant take the heat...

Do you want me to shock you?Now in Greece local time 1:58am guess what is our temperature here in Athens

 

[mesogeiakos]

We can for this station. It has a record of more than 30 years so...As I said 34,5 is what I believe is the correct number,.

I check daily too for years now and I think Amareleja and Moura (Herdade dos Lameiroes, Agrometeo) for some reason are warming up faster. Well, at least the the temperatures are always very close to Cordoba. This year, the average july max of Amareleja was 38,0 C and that is exactly the value of Cordoba. Herdade dos Lameiroes went up to 37,8 C. It is pretty warm.

Yes I know this.I believe the record high mean max for Amareleja was 38.2? In 2003 maybe?In Athens our record is 37.1 in 2007

 

[J.S.]

I like the warm statistics a lot!!But I cant take the heat...

Do you want me to shock you?Now in Greece local time 1:58am guess what is our temperature here in Athens

My best guess is...too warm!

 

[mesogeiakos]

here you go...

30C at 2am NOW in the oldest WMO station of the Balkans which is located in Athens


http://www.meteo.noa.gr/WeatherOnLine/s_Thiseio/meteo_tableEN.html


EDIT
Actually it is around 29.0C i see it is jammed for the last two hour

http://www.meteo.noa.gr/WeatherOnLine/s_Megara/meteo_tableEN.html

 

[J.S.]

I like the warm statistics a lot!!But I cant take the heat...

Do you want me to shock you?Now in Greece local time 1:58am guess what is our temperature here in Athens

Why the Portugese IM cannot be trusted....

Look at this.

Amareleja average max for july

2006: 36,8 (departure from normal 3,1...so 33,7 is the max well not quite)
2007: 35,5 (departure from normal, according to IM is.....1,5...aha it is 34,0, well not quite)
2008: no data
2009: 35,0 (departure from normal: 0,7...okey...eh so it is 34,3 then??)
2010: 38,0 (bulleting expected by the end of august but they stopped publicising it. I wonder why...).

So....what is the daytimae average max for Amareleja. Answer: even the IM does not know! Haha.