Seguimento Europa 2010

[J.S.]

After 17 days, the average maxima and minima in the warmest Iberian places.

Ecija (ES/Sevilla): Max 38,2 Min 21,5
Herdade dos Lameirões (PT/Baixo Alentejo): Max 37,8 Min 17,7
Alte (PT/Algarve): Max 37,5 Min 18,5
Cordoba aeropuerto (ES/Cordoba): Max 37,5, Min 21,6
Sevilla (ES/Sevilla): Max 37,2 min 24,0
Elvas (PT/Alto Alentejo): Max 37,0 Min 18,6
Badajoz Talavera (ES/Badajoz): Max 36,6 Min 19,8


Algarve seems very warm btw if we look at the agrometeostations.

Alte (Algarve, agro meteostation) on 10 august 43,2 and on the 11th of august 43,3 C. On that day Tmedia 34,2 C. A bit warmish. And Tmin 24,5 C.
For those who are interested in that value...;-)

Cacela, which had a tmin on 11 august of went up from 28,9 C as a minimum to 43,2 C as max (average 34,6 C). It is just 2 km from the sea.

 

[belem]

After 17 days, the average maxima and minima in the warmest Iberian places.

Ecija (ES/Sevilla): Max 38,2 Min 21,5
Herdade dos Lameirões (PT/Baixo Alentejo): Max 37,8 Min 17,7
Alte (PT/Algarve): Max 37,5 Min 18,5
Cordoba aeropuerto (ES/Cordoba): Max 37,5, Min 21,6
Sevilla (ES/Sevilla): Max 37,2 min 24,0
Elvas (PT/Alto Alentejo): Max 37,0 Min 18,6
Badajoz Talavera (ES/Badajoz): Max 36,6 Min 19,8


Algarve seems very warm btw if we look at the agrometeostations.

Alte (Algarve, agro meteostation) on 10 august 43,2 and on the 11th of august 43,3 C. On that day Tmedia 34,2 C. A bit warmish. And Tmin 24,5 C.
For those who are interested in that value...;-)

Cacela, which had a tmin on 11 august of went up from 28,9 C as a minimum to 43,2 C as max (average 34,6 C). It is just 2 km from the sea.

Muito interessantes esses dados.
Surpreendente a Herdade dos Lameirões, tendo em conta a sua posição geográfica. Assim como Elvas e Alte. Em Alte já apanhei noites bem quentes.
Ecija é muito quente, disso já tinha conhecimento.
Pena é que não há estações junto ao Vale do Guadiana, Tejo interior e Alto Douro ( zonas baixas e quentes do Côa, Cerejais,etc...) e assim tinhamos dados bastante interessantes para observar.
Certamente com mínimas mais altas e máximas muito boas.

 

[mesogeiakos]

This "myth" has been around a long time and it is based on the maximumtemperatures, because these are the highest values daily reported.

I think you will fail in deconstructing it and for another two reasons:
- Among layman, they don't write on cards "it is so warm here. The average is 30 C, the max 34 and the min 26 C". No, people write the maximum temp on the back of the card. Which shows yu what they are interested in in general
- Not among (hobby)meteorologists. You wnet trhough what must have been between 500-1000 messages on an Italian forum and by far the most had problems with a lot of stations in a 4-5 million city.

The funny thing is that I in fact do think that on maxima and average temperature the Athens region is warm and quite possibly the warmest in europe. We can compare to Sevilla, but this station has telltale signs of being influenced by either the city nearby or the tarmack of the airfield close to it. Otherwise, there is no a good explanation for those very high minimum temperatures. It is more than 2-3 C warmer than any station in the neighbourhood not placed so close to the city or a large airstrip. Only at night. At day, it is warmer still but not that much. We can discount Sevilla, it does not measure the regiona climate. It is measuring the the macro climate of theairfield/city combo.

Our discussion was about how much additional warming was measured because of the city effect.

Most people focus on the maxima however and there is little doubt that the warmest place from that perspective is found in either the Guadalquivir or Guadiana basin (I'd say the Guadalquivir area is more likely though).

So it won't change, even if it is still possibly correct. Why do you care so much BTW?

Well the accurate definition of an area being warm means ''on average'' at least this is what laymen meteorologists define it as.So in this sense the myth is totally disconstructed since we know that Athens has consistently the highest mean and which you fail to proove to us accademically how the mean in this station in Athens is influenced.

However even if I make you the favour and willingly disqualify the Observatory,then suburban Seville does not stand a chance against ''suburban'' Athens with the Elefsina station which is off course the official european temperature holder.

But it seems you have not been checking the comparisons very well.Megara station 45km to the west beats the Observatory minimums.Give us your theory around Megara in Attica as well?Is it influenced by Athens as well or is that Athens has been consistantly the warmest area of Europe in the summer due to Attica's unique geomorphology and geospatial position?

Also how does my participition in other forums even if I post 3million posts discredits what I say?

Btw as of today the Observatory beats the mean max of San Pablo so far for August...

Here is the standing so far untill yesterday

 

[mesogeiakos]

Belem,

Actually Ierapetra has an average of 20.1C along with Karpathos Island in the Dodecanese according to the method HNMS uses for means calculation.

However I was referring to the geographical borders of Europe in it's totally as a continent inclusive of isles.On top of that I was also referring to what is widely accepted today as the borders of Europe.Both the Azores and the Canaries seem not to fall to the most widely accepted category of European borders.For that matter neither Pantellaria and Lampedusa in Italy.

As for places in Iberia having the potential to beat Ierapetra mean annual temp this has already been discredited by AEMET's publication of Spain's extreme resume.The highest annual that AEMET accepts is 18.7(or 18.8 dont remember exactly) for Almeria and Seville and in absence of the data of Ierapetra for the corresponding period of the last 15 years.

However I am not sure about Portugal's official standing excluding off course Azore,Flores etc

 

[MSantos]

É bonito ver o nosso fórum cada vez mais internacional

 

[algarvio1980]

A AEMET publicou um relatório sobre a situação extrema nos arredores de Córdoba (Espanha).
http://www.aemet.es/documentos/es/noticias/2010/08/Tormentas_Cordoba_16082010.pdf

Excelente relatório vale a pena ler.

 

[mesogeiakos]

And here is the current standing between Andalusia and Attica stations 19 days in August so far

http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=38292&start=181&posts=189

 

[J.S.]

I wnet to my weatherstation in the country. Decided to leave my cam (with my new graduate Cokin ND filter at home....) I was so remorsefull leaving it. The best sunset ever: pink cirrus above me with clear blue sky in between. castellanus at 30 degress height sunlit from benaeath, very bright yellow cirrus aboveit and some optics underneath it and Kelvin Helmholtz in the castelanus....WAUWWWW. It was stunning sight.

Tmax was 27,8 C and Tmin was 15,6 C. So far augustus is at 17,2 Tmedium. Highest temp today and lowest on the 14th with 8,8 C. Quite a normal month. It is lacking days above 25,0 C clearly though (And the occasional 30+).
BTw: the station is in the countyr, above grass and measuring with calibrated equipment in a radiation screen (KNMI model, which in itself is based on the Canadian metoffice models and their research).

 

[belem]

Belem,

Actually Ierapetra has an average of 20.1C along with Karpathos Island in the Dodecanese according to the method HNMS uses for means calculation.

However I was referring to the geographical borders of Europe in it's totally as a continent inclusive of isles.On top of that I was also referring to what is widely accepted today as the borders of Europe.Both the Azores and the Canaries seem not to fall to the most widely accepted category of European borders.For that matter neither Pantellaria and Lampedusa in Italy.

As for places in Iberia having the potential to beat Ierapetra mean annual temp this has already been discredited by AEMET's publication of Spain's extreme resume.The highest annual that AEMET accepts is 18.7(or 18.8 dont remember exactly) for Almeria and Seville and in absence of the data of Ierapetra for the corresponding period of the last 15 years.

However I am not sure about Portugal's official standing excluding off course Azore,Flores etc

Então a média anual de Ierapetra é de 19,2ºc ou de 20,1ºc ?
Essa média de acordo com o método HNMS é mais alta porquê? Qual a diferença de um método para o outro?
Podes facultar um gráfico das temperaturas médias mensais de todo o ano ( média climatológica se possível)?
Obrigado.

 

[duero]

I have found a surprising information.

70ºC IN PORTUGAL DURING 2 MINUTES, 6 JULY 1949.

"The Best,Worst, and Unusual", by Bruce Felton, and Mark Fowler, (galahad books, N.Y), the temperature in F.degrees, happened on July 6, 1949, on the central coast of Portugal. The temp reached 158F for a period of 2 minutes.


* Apparently, “a freak heat wave hit the central coast of Portugal on July 6, 1949, sending the temperature up to 158°F for a period of about two minutes. Moments later the mercury slid back down to the mid-120s. No explanation for this bizarre heat wave has ever been offered

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060709174707AAbF5fu

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1949/july_6_1949_110481.html

http://www.historyorb.com/events/date/1949/july

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/839

 

[mesogeiakos]

Então a média anual de Ierapetra é de 19,2ºc ou de 20,1ºc ?
Essa média de acordo com o método HNMS é mais alta porquê? Qual a diferença de um método para o outro?
Podes facultar um gráfico das temperaturas médias mensais de todo o ano ( média climatológica se possível)?
Obrigado.

19.2C is with the simple mean you also use I think in Portugal (max+min/2).However Greece calculates the average by the temps registered every 3hours.There is much speculation on which method is the best or most representative however imo the multiple calculation method seems more accurate.

On a more interesting note according to HNMS and it's method the mean July temp of Elefsina airport for the period 1958-2001 is a sweltering 28.7C and the highest in the country yet again

Here are the data for Elefsina AP according to HNMS for the period 1958-2001

It's in Greek,so the columns in order stand for:mean,mean max,mean min,absolute max and absolute min

For Ierapetra see here post #25

http://forum.meteonetwork.it/meteorologia/121712-clima-unico-ierapetra-caldo-in-europa-3.html

 

[Daniel Vilão]

19.2C is with the simple mean you also use I think in Portugal (max+min/2).However Greece calculates the average by the temps registered every 3hours.There is much speculation on which method is the best or most representative however imo the multiple calculation method seems more accurate.

I agree with that point, as well as Davis itself calculates mean temperature using all data of each day to determinate that values, so it is more accurate, in my opinion, than simply calculating (min + max)/2.

 

[Vince]

É obviamente muito mais correcto fazer médias com múltiplas observações, penso que a OMM recomenda pelo menos uma média de 24 observações diárias (uma por hora). Uma estação automática que faça a média de todas as observações, ainda mais correcto é.

Só que há um problema com isto. Esta realidade das estações automáticas é uma coisa relativamente recente, e nós não podemos comparar médias feitas de uma forma com outras médias feitas de forma diferente. Como antigamente usavam muito a média simples ((min+max)/2), se queremos comparar dados actuais com os do passado, também teremos que calcular as médias como faziam antes, nem que seja ao lado, só para esse efeito.

E quem diz o passado, diz também o presente, por exemplo, eu não devo comparar as médias de uma estação em Lisboa, imaginemos, Moscavide, com outra estação da cidade, que faça as médias de forma diferente. Acabamos por comparar coisas calculadas de forma diferente, o que pode gerar grandes erros.

 

[mesogeiakos]

It's warming up again in Iberia with Spain and Portugal having top spots probably today while it's cooling down over in the South East of Europe.If you notice that is the trend generally... it's like the weather is vice versa between Iberia and the Balkans...


Here is the standing 20 days so far in August.Attica is really flerting with it's all time mean monthly record even though a cooling is predicted for the next 4-5 days while the warming up of Andalusia could cause a new all time mean record for Seville two months on the row!!!

Megara regains it's top spot yet again.Isnt it just amazing how this can happen in Attica in a city by the sea?!! And look at it's minimum...Skiathos in the northern Sporades and Megara in Attica are battling for the highest mean min of the summer in the country and probably Europe according to HNMS.In fact Skiathos Island has a slightly higher mean min compared to Megara!We are talking values on par with the Red Sea...

 

[mesogeiakos]

Btw I think the thread of Ian Williams in the UK forum is turning into a pretty much historic one...thousand of views from all over Europe... since with the latest forecasts both Seville and Athens are close to achieving their warmest months ever and on top of that Athens is really close on achieving yet again the European record of the warmest month EVER IN MODERN EUROPEAN HISTORY

Follow the thread here...

http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=38292&start=201&posts=205


As long as Athens does not drop each day below 34 max and 25 min and Seville below 37max and 23.5 min from today till the 31st I think the records will come for both cities we need a higher than 30.25 mean for Seville and a higher than 31.20 for Athens..the forecasts are on both cities sides...let's see....