Athens to experience 50°C during the summer/ Greek Ministry of Climate Change

[mesogeiakos]

mesogeiakos, look at this map (page number 35):

Climate network for air temperature in the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands

1503 stations.
In the Atlas book (pdf), you only have some of them.
But there's an Atlas CD edition with all data.

Data comes from Atlas CD edition. I extracted only the warmest mean temperature stations in JJA

Thank you!

With no WMO code I take it.I am familiar with those data from the Spanish forum,that is why I used my wording very carefully.Apart from that all those data are dubious,for example Elche has 17C annual mean in its main AEMET station and dont forget Elche is next to Alicante.Right?

Los Gallardos as well and so on.Maybe you should check the Rivas problem issue I am talking about in meteored foro for better understanding.Point being that my research suggests that apart from huge discrepancies within the same city (Elche) those stations are not a part of the WMO code scheme and I believe AEMET acknowledges that.Unless you can provide those WMO codes for me.Besides,all of those stations are now closed if I am not mistaken.Cheers!

 

[Huracán]

There are many Portuguese regions not covered on that map, in contrast with the huge Spanish network unfortunally.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Costa I am also very curious about areas next to Amareleja means.I think someone in the past had posted some really interesting figures.Can u help?Which is the warmest area for JJA for Portugal do u think?

 

[Ferreiro]

Sempre é mais quente Sevilla que Atenas no verao. A temperatura media das máximas nao engana.
Inclusive pegando os dados de Atenas na sua estaçao meteorológica mais quente no seu verao mais quente, apenas teve um record de 36ºC em xulho e agosto.
36ºC nao é nada doutro mundo no vale do Guadalquivir, donde Sevilla-aeroporto tem um record de 38,5ºC em xulho de 1994, Cordoba-aeroporto 39,5ºC tambem en xulho de 1994, e Andujar nao tem dados publicados, mas sem dúvida supera os 40ºC.

A elevada temperatura media no verao de certas estaçaos de Atenas (nao todas) é pelas altas temperaturas minimas, o cal esta moi influido pela localizaçao das estaçaos dentro da cidade.

 

[AnDré]

A elevada temperatura media no verao de certas estaçaos de Atenas (nao todas) é pelas altas temperaturas minimas, o cal esta moi influido pela localizaçao das estaçaos dentro da cidade.

Não nos podemos esquecer que Atenas é banhada pelo mar Egeu que nos meses de verão supera os 25ºC.
Esse será o factor determinante para as temperaturas mínimas elevadas.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Não nos podemos esquecer que Atenas é banhada pelo mar Egeu que nos meses de verão supera os 25ºC.
Esse será o factor determinante para as temperaturas mínimas elevadas.

This is not only a ''problem'' for Athens.If you look most of the South country you will see that the Aegean Islands rarely drop below 25C minimum during the summer due to the warming effect of the Aegean in retaining high minimums

On a different note it seems that July 2011 is becoming a really warm month for Athens and Greece,according to the models (gfs,european,etc) it seems that Greece is going to be in a prolonged heat situation.

Already the means for July are shooting.Here is how it stands between Attica and Andalusia,and look at the July means only...I have a feeling that if this situation continues then last August might be in reach in terms of achieving a similar mean...Megara already stands at 30.2C mean July temperature!!

 

[Vince]

With no WMO code I take it.I am familiar with those data from the Spanish forum,that is why I used my wording very carefully.Apart from that all those data are dubious,for example Elche has 17C annual mean in its main AEMET station and dont forget Elche is next to Alicante.Right?

You seem to talk a lot about Atenas-Thissio have a WMO code, but i would like to make a comparison betweet Seville and Thissio in the number of hot days (e.g. >30, >35,>40) and the problem is that i can't find daily data for Thissio anywhere. Do you know why?

 

[mesogeiakos]

You seem to talk a lot about Atenas-Thissio have a WMO code, but i would like to make a comparison betweet Seville and Thissio in the number of hot days (e.g. >30, >35,>40) and the problem is that i can't find daily data for Thissio anywhere. Do you know why?

The WMO id for Thiseio is 16714.It is under the name Athinai Observatory.Furthermore I am focusing clearly on mean summer temperatures,which is off course what makes an area overall warmer

Unfortunately in order to get access to so detailed stats you will need to contact the N.O.A of Athens and pay for them.I got them for free as I am a research student,however the data are absolutely copyrighted so I can not publish them unless its for the purposes of an academic journal...I think the price for the general public is not prohibitory (around 30 euros) but the again with the limitation that you cannot publish them without the National Observatory of Athens consent.Try emailing them,they might give you the green light and it will also make my life easier in their distribution

I have the 1981-2010 means and let me tell you that Athens rocks!! Dare I say,that we are seing means in the summer of over 29C? hehehe

Besides,you can find some limited of those stats from KNMI.Cheers

 

[Vince]

Averages give us valuable information about climate, right, but can also hide a lot. Average data always act as a filter, hiding extremes. And for sure I think that everyone should respect your opinion by using this criteria, but you also have to accept and respect that it is quite debatable what criteria to use when we talk about what is hotter in summer.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Averages give us valuable information about climate, right, but can also hide a lot. Average data always act as a filter, hiding extremes. And for sure I think that everyone should respect your opinion by using this criteria, but you also have to accept and respect that it is quite debatable what criteria to use when we talk about what is hotter in summer.

Off course.I am just using two parameters of the data to support my hypothesis.One is the mean JJA temperature and the other the extreme official values of the Athens basin.Obviously there are other parameters to be taken into account on what makes an area hotter or not,it is just that I think it makes more sense to use the mean JJA data to reach a safer conclusion

 

[mesogeiakos]

Also to come back to the topic I would like to ask our friends here a question,on what area you believe will be the first in Europe to hit an official 50C and if possible when??

My research suggest that the strongest candidates in Europe are the following

1.Athens basin
2. Murcia plains
3.Catania plains
4.Amareleja area
5.Guadalquivir valley


I am putting Athens first bsc of its official European record but I am open to some nice dialogue


On a sidenote,please find below the HNMS forecast for the 20th of July when we expect the heat in Greece to be at its height.HNMS is giving a maximum of 43C for Elefsina in Athens and 43C in Lamia as well.Just see a noteworthy 33C! as minimum for Elefsina. If the scenario of NW catabatic foehn winds comes true then its sure that Elefsina will see extremes.Let's see how it pans out

 

[Ferreiro]

Previsión para Grecia que pode ser certa ou nao, ja veremos. En todo caso as ondas de calor (temperaturas superiores a 40ºC) em Grecia duram pelo habitual um ou dous días. Nao tem nada que ver com o sur da peninsula iberica donde podem durar varias semanas seguidas. De fato há ja 3 anos que Atenas-Elefsina ou Atenas-thisio nao logram alcançar os 40ºC, ja que em 2010 e 2009 nao o conseguiram. Ainda esta por ver si este ano o logram.

Inclusive num mes de julho relativamente fresco como temos este ano na peninsula iberica, temos temperaturas mais altas aquí. A media das maximas nao engana. Os dados dos primeiros 15 días de julho:

http://www.tiempodiario.com/tiempo-mensual/2011-07/?order=t.tmed_max-DESC

A temperatura media das maximas em Andujar ja está em 37ºC e em Montoro (Cordoba) en 36,3ºC em que pese a um inicio de mes fresco, e será superior cando remate o mes. Nenhuma cidade grega chega a 36ºC pese a ter un mes de julho de 2011 quente por alí.

Acho que nunca sucedeu que una cidade grega teve em xulho ou agosto uma media das maximas por cima das cidades ibéricas. Isso é practicamente imposivel.

 

[Ferreiro]

Ademais temos os dados historicos de Sevilla-aeroporto e Cordoba-aeroporto:

http://www.aemet.es/es/elclima/datosclimatologicos/efemerides_extremos?o=5402&o=5783&m=7&v=TMMA


39,5ºC media das maximas num mes de julho é algo completamente impossivel para uma cidade grega. Nem de longe pode achegarse a isso.

 

[Dan]

Bucareste é tão ou mais quente que Badajoz ou Beja por exemplo.

Média das máximas em Julho e Agosto:

Bucareste: 28,8ºC e 28,5ºC

Beja: 32,8ºC e 32,6ºC

Badajoz: 34,3ºC e 34,0ºC

 

[Dan]

referia-me á temperatura media mensal e não á temperatura media da TMaxima... as diferenças penso que são de 2º graus ou seja Beja ligeiramente mais quente.

Beja-24º graus
Bucareste-22º graus

Exacto, 22,2ºC para Bucareste e 24,3ºC para Beja, numa média simples. Sendo Julho o mês mais quente em Bucareste e Agosto em Beja.