Local mais quente de Portugal ? 50°C é possível ?

belem

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Então a Amareleja tem tido médias assim tão altas?
Bom prenúncio para a pesquisa que estou a fazer.
Tendo em conta que o artigo sobre as zonas mais quentes até é da série 1960-1990, isso torna-se ainda mais interessante.
Obrigado, JS! :)
 


mesogeiakos

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Why the Portugese IM cannot be trusted....

Look at this.

Amareleja average max for july

2006: 36,8 (departure from normal 3,1...so 33,7 is the max well not quite)
2007: 35,5 (departure from normal, according to IM is.....1,5...aha it is 34,0, well not quite)
2008: no data
2009: 35,0 (departure from normal: 0,7...okey...eh so it is 34,3 then??)
2010: 38,0 (bulleting expected by the end of august but they stopped publicising it. I wonder why...).

So....what is the daytimae average max for Amareleja. Answer: even the IM does not know! Haha.

very funny :lol:
 

J.S.

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Então a Amareleja tem tido médias assim tão altas?
Bom prenúncio para a pesquisa que estou a fazer.
Tendo em conta que o artigo sobre as zonas mais quentes até é da série 1960-1990, isso torna-se ainda mais interessante.
Obrigado, JS! :)


It is on the IM site, 3th week of august always in agrometeorological bulletins. They stopped with them this january for some reason..To me, the average is (a s you know) 34,5 +/- 0,5 K for Amareleja. It is in this case supported lately by Herdade dos Lameirões, which shows almost the same valuesas I said.

Damn, have to work tomorrow at 8 o clock, so I go to sleep soon.
 

J.S.

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Dados dos ultimos anos das estações interessantes (para mim).

Porque não ha dados de Amareleja em 2008, salvo setembro, isto e dos dados the agosto 2003, junho, julho e agosto 2005-2010 (-2008). Assim, podemos comparar estas estações.

Media das maximas de Junho (estações do INM e IM):

Cordoba: 33,1
Amareleja: 32,4
Sevilla: 32,4
Badajoz: 31,7

Julho:
Cordoba: 37,8
Sevilla: 36,9
Amareleja: 36,3
Badajoz: 35,5

Agosto:
Cordoba: 37,2
Amareleja: 36,3
Sevilla: 36,0
Badajoz: 35,5

Setembro:
Cordoba: 31,4
Amareleja: 31,0
Sevilla: 31,0
Badajoz: 30,6

Oke, sorry, in English....We see a sharper temperature rise (it is only 5-6 years of course) in the the Guadalquivir region compared to the Guadiana region especially Badajoz. Cordoba is 1,6 C/1,7C warmer in july and august.
Sevilla: same story.
Badajoz: 1,2 C warmer in july and 1,5 C warmer in august (so not too much difference).

A rough estimate puts Amareleja somewhere between 1,4 and 1,6 C warmer in july and august and yet again we come to 34,9 and 34,8 C as average maxima, so say 35 C. In the valley, this wil be 0,5 K higher or so.

Anyway: pretty hot! And it is not getting any cooler...
 

mesogeiakos

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Dados dos ultimos anos das estações interessantes (para mim).

Porque não ha dados de Amareleja em 2008, salvo setembro, isto e dos dados the agosto 2003, junho, julho e agosto 2005-2010 (-2008). Assim, podemos comparar estas estações.

Media das maximas de Junho (estações do INM e IM):

Cordoba: 33,1
Amareleja: 32,4
Sevilla: 32,4
Badajoz: 31,7

Julho:
Cordoba: 37,8
Sevilla: 36,9
Amareleja: 36,3
Badajoz: 35,5

Agosto:
Cordoba: 37,2
Amareleja: 36,3
Sevilla: 36,0
Badajoz: 35,5

Setembro:
Cordoba: 31,4
Amareleja: 31,0
Sevilla: 31,0
Badajoz: 30,6

Oke, sorry, in English....We see a sharper temperature rise (it is only 5-6 years of course) in the the Guadalquivir region compared to the Guadiana region especially Badajoz. Cordoba is 1,6 C/1,7C warmer in july and august.
Sevilla: same story.
Badajoz: 1,2 C warmer in july and 1,5 C warmer in august (so not too much difference).

A rough estimate puts Amareleja somewhere between 1,4 and 1,6 C warmer in july and august and yet again we come to 34,9 and 34,8 C as average maxima, so say 35 C. In the valley, this wil be 0,5 K higher or so.

Anyway: pretty hot! And it is not getting any cooler...

Do you have the Amareleja data for the whole last decade?


Amareleja seems to me inconsistent from those data :huh:
For example Gualdaquivir seems almost the whole last decade to have areas that approach a 10year 37.0C (I think Cordoba area)

Btw I see you are refering to INM.The name is changed to AEMET the past few years ;)

Oh and from the data I have from the national observatory of Athens for the last decade look at Athens...

WMO ID 16714 ATHENS OBSERVATORY
DATA AS PUBLISHED BY THE NATIONAL OBSERVATORY OF ATHENS

2001
36.1°C
24.9°C

2002
35.2°C
25.4°C

2003
35.2°C
25.1°C

2004
34.8°C
24.6°C

2005
35.1°C
24.7°C

2006
33.4°C
23.9°C

2007
36.5°C
25.9°C

2008
34.7°C
24.8°C

2009
34.9°C
25.0°C

Mean max: 35.1°C
Mean min: 24.9°C

Mean(simple arithmetic) 30.0C


Look at the amazing 30.0C mean for Athens.By far the warmest area in Europe in the summer on average in my opinion

Btw Athens holds 3 official european temperature records

1.48.0C all time European record (Elefsina and Tatoi)

2.47.5 June European record (26/6/07 N.Filadelfeia)

3. 31.2C mean July European record (2007)
 

J.S.

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Hej,

No I have used all the data available.
What do you mean by inconsistent? Don't understand it. It is what to be expected in its position.

As it is more to the west, with dominant east winds it is warmer than the Guadalquivir area, if you mean that. And in summers with consitent flows from the interior it is warmer too. Last july, Coruche and not Amareleja had the highest tmax: 43,0 C. From that, it is even vice versa: Amareleja is consistent in its heath, more than to the coast and so is Cordoba compared to Amareleja.

The high temperature in summer at night are easy to explain in Athens given the wamr sea right on its footstep. It resembles Vlissingen KNMI. It is 10 km away but this station is 10 m from the sea. In summer it is 2 K warmer than just 4 km inland. They never got down to -16 C. Just 7 years they moved the station inland and they reached first -15 C and than -20 C.
But is so mild and frostfree (just 20-30 days or so), it is incredible. But very explainable.

But there is something else I clearly can see there: the cityeffect. It is not located in the city, but just 200-300 m away. When the wind starts to blow from the north in summer and the whole peninsula cools, Vlissingen heaths up! And afterwards it cools down but the city effect is easily recognisable.

So how much is he valley of Athens influenced by a large city. Are these stations near the city or are they clearly in the countryside?

Because that might have an effect on the daytime maximum temperatures and nighttime temperatures as well, despite the complex geography. It is a bit strange and not easily explicable how inland places in the NW are cooler than Athens, yet they are better landlocked and low lying.

It puzzles me a bit.

Of course 31,2 C is extremely warm! Personally, I am more impressed by daytime maxima as well as winter nighttime minima as these to me are the extremes in temperature.

Regards and thanks for the data.

Last 10 years (june/july/august/september)
Cordoba: 33,8/37,1/36,8/31,5.
Badajoz: 32.3/34,9/34,9/30.3
Sevilla: 33,1/36.2/35.7/31.0

Beja (Portugal): 31.2/33.5/33.5/29.4

From this we can deduce that over this period, Amareleja is at 35.5 +/-0,5 K.


Finally: a station I was also interested in for its position is Aydin in the Meander valley in Turkey. Really nice positioned and quite possibly the warmest station in your region I think. I mean: daytime maxima!

Regards and thanks for the data.

Do you have the Amareleja data for the whole last decade?


Amareleja seems to me inconsistent from those data :huh:
For example Gualdaquivir seems almost the whole last decade to have areas that approach a 10year 37.0C (I think Cordoba area)

Btw I see you are refering to INM.The name is changed to AEMET the past few years ;)

Oh and from the data I have from the national observatory of Athens for the last decade look at Athens...

WMO ID 16714 ATHENS OBSERVATORY
DATA AS PUBLISHED BY THE NATIONAL OBSERVATORY OF ATHENS

2001
36.1°C
24.9°C

2002
35.2°C
25.4°C

2003
35.2°C
25.1°C

2004
34.8°C
24.6°C

2005
35.1°C
24.7°C

2006
33.4°C
23.9°C

2007
36.5°C
25.9°C

2008
34.7°C
24.8°C

2009
34.9°C
25.0°C

Mean max: 35.1°C
Mean min: 24.9°C

Mean(simple arithmetic) 30.0C


Look at the amazing 30.0C mean for Athens.By far the warmest area in Europe in the summer on average in my opinion

Btw Athens holds 3 official european temperature records

1.48.0C all time European record (Elefsina and Tatoi)

2.47.5 June European record (26/6/07 N.Filadelfeia)

3. 31.2C mean July European record (2007)
 

mesogeiakos

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J.S, Turkey is not in our area!We are Europe they are Asia despite the proximity



In terms of Amareleja I mean that it seems consistantly cooler to Cordoba and with big ups and downs.For example one day it can be 33 and the next over 40.In fact last week I was looking the IM site and the charts for Amareleja showed some significant ups and downs.Isnt that strange?


Now regarding Athens.The observatory station is 7km away from the sea in the most prominent point of Athens historic centre ,the hill of Nymphs(well known in Ancient Greek history).It is the oldest station in the Balkan Peninsula with a recorded history of 180 years.

Now the unique phainomenon with Athens is that it presents consistently a negative UHI during daytime due to multiple factors such as this extreme complexity of morphology(only Los Angeles resembles the Athens basin) ,proximity to the sea ,altitude and off course our famous Greek Meltemi winds!!

Here are a few papers

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/l...234401.pdf?arnumber=4234401&authDecision=-203

And here is the most well known publication for the Observatory station with an amazing analysis for the period 1860-1982! While the nighttime UHI is apparent almost everywhere in Athens the Observatory station and higher altitude areas are ''saved by the bell'' due to this amazing geopspatial position and off course due to other factors!

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0450(1985)024<1296:IOTUHI>2.0.CO;2

If you look at the tables for the Observatory of Athens station in the last pages you will be shocked to find out that Athens has exactly the same mean max from the 1860 period when Athens was only 50.000 inhabitants due to this negative UHI during the day,which off course helps the mean temps stay around average!
 

J.S.

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J.S, Turkey is not in our area!We are Europe they are Asia despite the proximity

This is about climate, not about politics or any other thing. I understand the past, Portugal and Spain have a similar past of mainly wars. All over the world I might add. Has little to with our climatic region.

Anyway: I find the Meander valley and the station of Aydin most intruiging I have to say. Resembles Guadalquivir/Guadiana quite well!

Just looked up the data for Aydin for the decade. Well I be damned! Is that like a copy of Cordoba?
34,1/ 37,1/36,6/31,9...! Incredible, although I thought it would be slightly warmer. Station is at 57 m.

In terms of Amareleja I mean that it seems consistantly cooler to Cordoba and with big ups and downs.For example one day it can be 33 and the next over 40.In fact last week I was looking the IM site and the charts for Amareleja showed some significant ups and downs.Isnt that strange?

Well, that is a nice remark ! Actually made me find out a couple of things.

The dip is not confined to Amareleja, although it shows up there more clearly than some other stations but it is similar to Mertola, Castro Verde and indeed Sevilla and Badajoz show it. Finally Cordoba too, but less clearly.

Here are the values of Herdade dos Lameirões. Same height as Amareleja, 20 km straight to the south.

Herdade dos Lameiroes (agrometeo, measures to WMO standards btw):

0308: 39,9/27,5/13,9//rhmin 17,0//evo 5,3
0408: 39,6/29,9/19,2//rhmin 17,4//evo 5,9
0508: 39,0/29,2/16,9//rhmin 14,6//evo 6,1
0608: 40,3/29,3/15,9//rhmin 18,5//evo 5,9
0708: 40,9/30,7/19,5//rhmin 23,9//evo 6,5
0808: 34,2/28,5/22,5//rhmin 32,1//evo 3,2
0908: 40,5/29,5/19,8//rhmin 21,5//evo 5,0

The dip is clear, minimum relative humidity is higher, the minimum temperature is higher and evo is lower. All indications for less irradiation, in essence moist air=clouds/atalntic influence. The wind was 298 degrees BTW. So if it was constant Cordoba is expected to be warmer.

BTW: current august average in Herdade dos Lameiroes is 38,6 C (till 9-08). Yesterday it was 42,0-42,5 in the whole region. Amareleja, Mertola, Castro Verde and Portel Oriola...For Cordoba it is now 39,1 C. If I add 42,5 C from yesterday to Herdade dos L. it is 39,0 C. Like last month it is pretty close. Amareleja has been somewhat cooler the last days though....

Neverthelles: Corodba has only two days this month of 40+ (just), Portel has about 6 or 7 already, Herdade dos Lameiroes has been close to 40 C as you can see. The heat in Cordoba is more constant.

A peek at Sevilla..38,5 C. Badajoz 38,6, Moron de la Frontera 38,6..

Finally: the minimum temperatures. here we see huge differences between the two valleys, that are difficult to explain, but I guess the Portugese part is clearly drier.
Look at this:

Tmin in august thusfar:
Herdade dos Lameiroes: 17,4 C
Badajoz: 20,3
Cordoba: 22,3
Sevilla: 24,0 C

July average min temp:
Herdade dos L. 16.3 ( that is just 0.2 C warmer than Vlissingen KNMI!!!!!)
Badajoz: 18,6
Moron de la Frontera: 20,3
Cordoba: 20,5
Sevilla: 22,8

Two things: Sevilla is much warmer. Moron is in a similar location, but cooler at day and night. Portuguese inland stations are so much colder! Herdade dos Lameiroes is not the exception, but I'll stop adding data now.

It seems that the Guadiana valley (well, they are all a bit above the valley) is so much colder in summer at night. We have a big amplitude there!

Now regarding Athens.The observatory station is 7km away from the sea in the most prominent point of Athens historic centre ,the hill of Nymphs(well known in Ancient Greek history).It is the oldest station in the Balkan Peninsula with a recorded history of 180 years.

Now the unique phainomenon with Athens is that it presents consistently a negative UHI during daytime due to multiple factors such as this extreme complexity of morphology(only Los Angeles resembles the Athens basin) ,proximity to the sea ,altitude and off course our famous Greek Meltemi winds!!

Here are a few papers

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/l...234401.pdf?arnumber=4234401&authDecision=-203

And here is the most well known publication for the Observatory station with an amazing analysis for the period 1860-1982! While the nighttime UHI is apparent almost everywhere in Athens the Observatory station and higher altitude areas are ''saved by the bell'' due to this amazing geopspatial position and off course due to other factors!

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0450(1985)024<1296:IOTUHI>2.0.CO;2

If you look at the tables for the Observatory of Athens station in the last pages you will be shocked to find out that Athens has exactly the same mean max from the 1860 period when Athens was only 50.000 inhabitants!

Thanks. I have to say that one day in october does not satisfy me at all. First of all: urban heat isles are much more prominent near the longest day.
Funny: inmy book about the Portugese climate they do exaclty the same. They show a infrared picture of Spain and Portugal on a day in the summer of and show the station data. The station data shows Cordoba to be warmer, the infrared is clearly warmer and larger in the Guadiana valley but it just does not cover a single station. Is this proof? Not to me.
In the summer and not in winter, spring or fall...But I'll read the study.

Are these data from Eleftherios Venizelos airport? If not, seems easier than deducing all kind of things form a city center.

I have to say that Athens is very interesting. Never thought of that, but it is!
 

mesogeiakos

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Well the distinction is between Europe and Asia and not Greece and Turkey.That is clear!I did not refer to any politics.Greece is to be included in European climatology and comparisons and Turkey in Asia respectively.

Now in terms of Amareleja area well that seems suprizing.I mean is it the proximity to the Atlantic that might play a role in the mins?I am totally clueless for the mins in Portugal.

Regarding the articles.I think you missed the basic point.The first article was indicative only and off course can not be representative of the whole of Athens and especially regarding the Observatory station..

Now I think you got a little confused with what the Athens basin actually is(trust me most people non familiar with Athens are constantly confused.)..What does El.Venizelos airport has to do with the Athens basin ?


The second study focuses on a 100 year study of the National Observatory station means which is located at an altitude of 110m in the most prominent hills of Athens.Have you seen pics of the Acropolis?Well at this altitude is also the station.

The Athens basin is a basin that is surrounded by five huge mountains.Imittos,Penteli,Parnitha,Aigaleo and Kitheron and it's extention is the well known Thriasion plain were Elefsina is...Elefsina has one of the most puzzling climatologies in Europe!For example it is the only coastal area in Europe with an average max of 33.0 in July.We are talking proper sea here!On top of that it has the highest frequency of temps over 45.0C in Greece with 9 times having officially recorded temps over 45.0C the past 30 years.What about Seville and Cordoba?I think even for them it is difficult to compete with the extreme dynamic of a coastal area of Athens. I am talking about the extreme and not the usual dynamic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusina#European_Temperature_Record_and_summer_climate

To help you understand a little better the Athens basin ,here is an extract of the second paper. Can you see how difficult it is to actually estimate UHI in Athens?

uhi1.jpg


And here is the long term analysis of the annual means for the Observatory station!
athensmeans.jpg


Can you see how brutal the negative UHI during the day is for Athens Observatory station??While the night one is apparent the daytime is so strong that it pushes the means down to 1860 period!

athinaw.jpg


I hope I have helped you to understand how strange is Athens....And yes I know that most people in Europe have no idea about this ;)
 

Zerrui

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São regiões com microclimas bem distintos:
Terra Fria- Zonas altas e planálticas, expostas aos ventos de Nordeste e

Olá Belém:
O ditado "de Espanha, nem bom vento nem bom casamento" é anterior a Espanha. Uma pesquisa do Dr. Costa Alves situa-o no tempo do Condado Portucalense, com o casamento que a História de Portugal menciona e... com ventos de Leão! No inverno, a circulação atmosférica à superfície traz ar muito frio quando o céu está limpo e o ar vem de norte ou nordeste. No verão, se o ar não é amenizado por uma passagem atlântica, vindo das mesmas paragens, é aquecido enquanto passa lentamente sobre o chão que o Sol aquece e chega tórrido. Cinquenta graus Celsius? Temperatura de quê? Temos de ter a certeza de que é mesmo da massa de ar que está na região global. Só então poderemos compará-los com Porto, Aveiro, etc. Os termómetros de uma rede de observação têm forçosamente de estar colocados em condições semelhantes: abrigo, distância ao solo, características do solo, técnicas de manuseio, horário de leitura, forma de arredondamento... O caso do ovo estrelado é clássico, pois fica cozido no carril do combóio e não coze na travessa de madeira ali ao lado... E uma alfaia agrícola ao relento, antes de o sol nascer, tem iguais temperaturas na parte metálica e na parte de madeira! Este equilíbrio de calor armazenado é fundamental para não se confundir a temperatura do ar num recanto de uma cidade com a temperatura do ar que possa representar a cidade. Cinquenta graus Celsius, por que não? Mas é melhor sair desse local e procurar outro ali perto onde esteja mais fresco, não fazer esforços físicos e beber água, muita água. Nos EUA, onde aplicam a estatística a muitos dados, sabe-se que há muitas mortes na altura dos nevões frios porque... os automóveis ficam atolados e os automobilistas sofrem ataques cardíacos enquanto os empurram!
Zerrui
 

J.S.

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I feel a big argument coming up here....

First, you seem to jump to conclusions.

1) we see a negative heatisle effect?


Let me explain what happened there. First years: much lower min and higher max. With a city becoming bigger, both go up. If you shelter your themrometer much better than in those days, the extremes become smaller.
This thermometer there was simple prone to radiation influences. This results in cooler nights (warmth loss by radiation on the thermometer, easy to do so yourself at clear nights) and much warmer daytime temperatures. This was rather common those days.
Example: all record for Spain and Portugal from those days or not recognised anymore. 50,5 C in OS Riodades Portugal and 50,0 C in Seville, in 1876 (or so).
And we see this also in the average data. BAdajoz Instituto, INM (AEMET) station. Look at the july max average (record) of 2006: 36,7. In Instituto it was...42,7 C. That is the average maximum of july 1866....and in august 1864 it was 41,0 C! May be in Badajoz they have such an effect also and may be all over Spain and Portugal back then. But I don't think so. Do you?

Then we go further and we see a fall till 1920 or so, than a rise to 1940 maintaining this value till 1960 and than a fall.

How can that be. I expect that this observatory has had a detectable human influence all the time. If you start in a city with 50000 people in the centre, with trees like there, you already have a huge influence. The city heatisle effect will not get much bigger. It is very detectable when a rural place becomes suburban and then urban. So at that place, you will not detect to much urban heath warming augmentation.

Why did it cool from 1960-1982. It would have been nice if the authors took the effort too look at other stations in Greece that have had no urban influence and look at the trends. Anyway: this trend reflects the worldwide trend reasonably well. A factor for the cooling might be SO2 emissions strongly becoming a factor because of increased population ANd factories AND cars. This causes a cooling and is most evident where it is emitted. That is why it is so difficult to calculate SO2 effects in global climate models. It is not wellmixed, like CO2. Surely in a area like Athens this effect may havecaused the cooling. And from 1975 or so we see a rise, which is exactly what we saw worldwide. A sharp jump in 1976 that has continued.

The SO2 effect is to reflect incoming sunlight, because smog fog lingers longer and thus an effect on the maximumtemperatures is to be expected. BEsides: we still do not know how the temperatures in other parts of Greece behaved. Did they show the same trends or did they differ. By constantly measuring in an areaa largerly influenced by humans you cannot deduce this.

It is very clear to me that minimumtemperatures and average temperatures are much higher than they would be if this place would have been rural. Authors are clear about it to. Your record mean average is therefor affected and cannot be compared with values in rural station in your country or elsewhere in the mediterranean.
In this city, a negative heatisles effect would have caused a constant drop in temperatures. We do not see that, we see a rise fall and rise. The heatisle effect has always been there, has likely/possibly been masked by SO2 effects from 1950-1990. After that, the air has become cleaner and worldwide influences are affecting Greece too. The temperatures will rise.

Anyway: no station in that valley can now becompared to rural station. It is too warm because of the heatisle.





Well the distinction is between Europe and Asia and not Greece and Turkey.That is clear!I did not refer to any politics.Greece is to be included in European climatology and comparisons and Turkey in Asia respectively.

Now in terms of Amareleja area well that seems suprizing.I mean is it the proximity to the Atlantic that might play a role in the mins?I am totally clueless for the mins in Portugal.

Regarding the articles.I think you missed the basic point.The first article was indicative only and off course can not be representative of the whole of Athens and especially regarding the Observatory station..

Now I think you got a little confused with what the Athens basin actually is(trust me most people non familiar with Athens are constantly confused.)..What does El.Venizelos airport has to do with the Athens basin ?


The second study focuses on a 100 year study of the National Observatory station means which is located at an altitude of 110m in the most prominent hills of Athens.Have you seen pics of the Acropolis?Well at this altitude is also the station.

The Athens basin is a basin that is surrounded by five huge mountains.Imittos,Penteli,Parnitha,Aigaleo and Kitheron and it's extention is the well known Thriasion plain were Elefsina is...Elefsina has one of the most puzzling climatologies in Europe!For example it is the only coastal area in Europe with an average max of 33.0 in July.We are talking proper sea here!On top of that it has the highest frequency of temps over 45.0C in Greece with 9 times having officially recorded temps over 45.0C the past 30 years.What about Seville and Cordoba?I think even for them it is difficult to compete with the extreme dynamic of a coastal area of Athens. I am talking about the extreme and not the usual dynamic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusina#European_Temperature_Record_and_summer_climate

To help you understand a little better the Athens basin ,here is an extract of the second paper. Can you see how difficult it is to actually estimate UHI in Athens?

uhi1.jpg


And here is the long term analysis of the annual means for the Observatory station!
athensmeans.jpg


Can you see how brutal the negative UHI during the day is for Athens Observatory station??While the night one is apparent the daytime is so strong that it pushes the means down to 1860 period!

athinaw.jpg


I hope I have helped you to understand how strange is Athens....And yes I know that most people in Europe have no idea about this ;)
 

belem

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Now in terms of Amareleja area well that seems suprizing.I mean is it the proximity to the Atlantic that might play a role in the mins?I am totally clueless for the mins in Portugal.

No caso da Amareleja está mais relacionado com as inversões térmicas.
Um local do interior,que já não tem esta característica tão marcada, é por exemplo Zebreira.
Na costa ocidental, sim, o Atlântico pode influenciar sobretudo, quando sopra a nortada, normalmente devido a um centro de baixas pressões formado no interior de Portugal e Espanha ( devido ao forte aquecimento do ar) e um anticiclone nos Açores, fazendo com o que a massa de ar na sua deslocação do centro de altas pressões para o de baixas pressões, crie algum vento, sobretudo durante a tarde, na costa ocidental. Este processo provoca o fenómeno de «uppwelling», fazendo com que águas mais profundas e frias do mar aflorem à superfície, fornecendo ao mar uma dose extra de nutrientes e biodiversidade.
O vento ao embater nestas águas, refresca a atmosfera nocturna na costa ocidental.
Mas há excepções, como por exemplo em algumas fases do verão, em que o fluxo de ar vem do interior da P. Ibérica ou do Norte de África, trazendo algum calor durante a noite, mesmo na costa ocidental.
 

J.S.

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Well the distinction is between Europe and Asia and not Greece and Turkey.That is clear!I did not refer to any politics.Greece is to be included in European climatology and comparisons and Turkey in Asia respectively.

Now in terms of Amareleja area well that seems suprizing.I mean is it the proximity to the Atlantic that might play a role in the mins?I am totally clueless for the mins in Portugal.

Regarding the articles.I think you missed the basic point.The first article was indicative only and off course can not be representative of the whole of Athens and especially regarding the Observatory station..

Now I think you got a little confused with what the Athens basin actually is(trust me most people non familiar with Athens are constantly confused.)..What does El.Venizelos airport has to do with the Athens basin ?


The second study focuses on a 100 year study of the National Observatory station means which is located at an altitude of 110m in the most prominent hills of Athens.Have you seen pics of the Acropolis?Well at this altitude is also the station.

The Athens basin is a basin that is surrounded by five huge mountains.Imittos,Penteli,Parnitha,Aigaleo and Kitheron and it's extention is the well known Thriasion plain were Elefsina is...Elefsina has one of the most puzzling climatologies in Europe!For example it is the only coastal area in Europe with an average max of 33.0 in July.We are talking proper sea here!On top of that it has the highest frequency of temps over 45.0C in Greece with 9 times having officially recorded temps over 45.0C the past 30 years.What about Seville and Cordoba?I think even for them it is difficult to compete with the extreme dynamic of a coastal area of Athens. I am talking about the extreme and not the usual dynamic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusina#European_Temperature_Record_and_summer_climate

To help you understand a little better the Athens basin ,here is an extract of the second paper. Can you see how difficult it is to actually estimate UHI in Athens?

uhi1.jpg


And here is the long term analysis of the annual means for the Observatory station!
athensmeans.jpg


Can you see how brutal the negative UHI during the day is for Athens Observatory station??While the night one is apparent the daytime is so strong that it pushes the means down to 1860 period!

athinaw.jpg


I hope I have helped you to understand how strange is Athens....And yes I know that most people in Europe have no idea about this ;)

About elefsis and 45+ days. I t could be exceptional. I know that Amareleja had 17 days in a row of 40+ in 2003. And the average was 43,0 C over that period (last one with a very slight reservation, could be 42,5-43,2). Cordoba did not reach that value. So the extremes are not necessarily indicative for the hottest placeon average.
 

belem

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Olá Belém:
O ditado "de Espanha, nem bom vento nem bom casamento" é anterior a Espanha. Uma pesquisa do Dr. Costa Alves situa-o no tempo do Condado Portucalense, com o casamento que a História de Portugal menciona e... com ventos de Leão! No inverno, a circulação atmosférica à superfície traz ar muito frio quando o céu está limpo e o ar vem de norte ou nordeste. No verão, se o ar não é amenizado por uma passagem atlântica, vindo das mesmas paragens, é aquecido enquanto passa lentamente sobre o chão que o Sol aquece e chega tórrido. Cinquenta graus Celsius? Temperatura de quê? Temos de ter a certeza de que é mesmo da massa de ar que está na região global. Só então poderemos compará-los com Porto, Aveiro, etc. Os termómetros de uma rede de observação têm forçosamente de estar colocados em condições semelhantes: abrigo, distância ao solo, características do solo, técnicas de manuseio, horário de leitura, forma de arredondamento... O caso do ovo estrelado é clássico, pois fica cozido no carril do combóio e não coze na travessa de madeira ali ao lado... E uma alfaia agrícola ao relento, antes de o sol nascer, tem iguais temperaturas na parte metálica e na parte de madeira! Este equilíbrio de calor armazenado é fundamental para não se confundir a temperatura do ar num recanto de uma cidade com a temperatura do ar que possa representar a cidade. Cinquenta graus Celsius, por que não? Mas é melhor sair desse local e procurar outro ali perto onde esteja mais fresco, não fazer esforços físicos e beber água, muita água. Nos EUA, onde aplicam a estatística a muitos dados, sabe-se que há muitas mortes na altura dos nevões frios porque... os automóveis ficam atolados e os automobilistas sofrem ataques cardíacos enquanto os empurram!
Zerrui

Esse vento de nordeste ( frio ou quente) sopra sobretudo nos planaltos, em terras mais baixas, certamente tem menos efeito.
O meu objectivo é simples: localizar algumas das zonas mais quentes e fazer registos fiáveis.
Obrigado pela opinião. :D
 

mesogeiakos

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10 Ago 2010
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About elefsis and 45+ days. I t could be exceptional. I know that Amareleja had 17 days in a row of 40+ in 2003. And the average was 43,0 C over that period (last one with a very slight reservation, could be 42,5-43,2). Cordoba did not reach that value. So the extremes are not necessarily indicative for the hottest placeon average.

yes that is why I drew a line on the 45.0C + days only.I am not sure what is the values for Spain,Portugal or Italy but it seems very difficult to have cities with officially over 45.0C at least 9 times in their history for one 30year time series.

The only exception off course might be Murcia plains and basin.It has the strongest extreme dynamic of Spain regarding the frequency of extreme maxes over 43.0C. Gualdaquivir can not simply compete with the Murciano!

Besides I am not interested in the maxes only.I am mainly interested in pinpointing Europe's warmest area in the summer scientifically.This entails mean temperature calculation and with 99% probability this is Attica in Greece.

Regarding the rest of your argument:We are simply talking of the Athens basin.Next to zero area in the world has this geomoprhology!So I believe the article is pretty clear unless off course you have another academic publication for the case of the Athens Observatory case.

I think the article is clear that the UHI in Athens does not touch the means from the period 1860...Wont you agree?

EDIT:And here is the extract that specifies it

at2m.jpg


So in case I jump to a conclusion of negative UHI then how is this explained?Since we only know of night time UHI in Athens